Congrats FLOPS!!! Who will be next?

[Ultra Grump]

...It was al Qaida that killed 2500 American servicemen and women...

Really? Where? I'm pretty sure Al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq until we went in first, on whose orders?

 

[XShipRider]

What exactly did the auto unions do there industry? Make crappy, ugly cars ... nope they just produced what management told them to. Not think about fuel effency ... nope management again. Build bohemeth cars (which by the way made lots of money for everyone back in the day) ... nope, management again..

Since you asked... I grew up in a UAW family. You couldn't grow up in
Michigan without knowing half the state worked for the auto companies.
I saw workers drinking before their 2nd shift, workers getting high before
their 3rd shift, workers drinking and smoking dope at their lunch hours.
How did they get away with such things? Easy, don't do it on company
property and there wasn't a single thing the company could do.

No doubt management designed junk which got poor mileage, rattled after
you left the dealer's lot, needed excessive maintenance, performed like
a tractor and handled like one too. But that had nothing to do with unions
demanding more and more and more... until the overhead associated
with producing a car drove the costs out of sight. All this in the name
of COLAs when in reality they were already paying unskilled labor (as
defined by the unions!) 3X normal wages. I have a brother-in-law who
just retired. His pay as an unskilled laborer was just shy of $70K per
year. Multiply that by a couple of hundred thousand.

We can all see what the domestic companies are going through today.
Hundreds of thousands have lost their jobs since the 80s with tens
of thousands more imminent. All due to high overhead. Read Iococca
(dated but relevant) to get a glimpse of the CEOs daily worries.

I think if you read my post correctly you'd find I'm behind the union effort
all the way. Not that it matters as I'm no longer in the industry. But
that aside, I have always felt unions as a necessary evil. But ONLY AS
LONG AS THEY REMEMBER WHO THEY WORK FOR! The minute they're
making demands on the company which threaten long-term viability...
they've become the UAW in drag.

I am also keenly aware your industry does not fit into the unskilled labor
market. To the contrary, your industry requires highly skilled persons
of high character. My point was unions started out protecting the
workers, all workers, but got off track somewhere making unrealistic
long-term demands which no longer fit into the "protecting the worker"
mantra. They started demanding for the sake of demanding. Ford
made a billion dollars profit one year some time back. Ford became the
next strike target. Did the billion dollars materialize the next year? No,
but that didn't stop the union from making demands based on that one
single year's profit. In fact, a strike target was picked every year.
Why? I'm not sure as compensation was very good already. If the
contract was written good enough to guarantee compensation increases
then why strike? Oh, forgot... to demand more.

I'm ranting, getting back to the pilots union...
High skills = high wages. It would be my hope that every pilot make
$100K starting wage. Why? Because anybody can land a plane in
perfect weather and all systems functional. It takes skill and knowledge
of flight when when the weather changes and the plane decides the
MEL is only created for human consumption.

 

[gunfyter]

Really? Where? I'm pretty sure Al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq until we went in first, on whose orders?

Are you out of your mind? Did you forget that we found the training camps where Saddam trained Al Qaida to hijack planes?

Stop listening to Air America. You need to get Hannitized.


We are killing Al Qaida every day in Iraq and like Martha says... thats a good thing.

No WMD my arse...

Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms - The Washington Times: Nation/Politics - October 28, 2004


Russia Moved Iraqi WMD

 

[G100driver]

XShip ... Nice post.

It is nice to see well reasoned posts with flaming for flaming sake.

:beer:

 

[G100driver]

Stop listening to Air America. You need to get Hannitized.

Gunfyter .. now that is funny.

Whether it be retoric from the left or the right it is all B.S.

Hannity may believe what he says but the only reason why he is on the air is because he has audience, not because he speaks the truth (much like Air America).

 

[realityman]

Rusty, you actually make very good points. The real discrepancy I have with you is that they aren't RELEVANT to the case at hand. You say that when labor wants to earn the same as the guy in the back that they've gone too far. Okay, that's fair. ut how does that relate to what NJA did and FLOPS is trying to do?
We at NJA got our 5th year captain pay to 90k. How is that out of line? And how would it be out of line for the FLOPS guys to want the same? Not even close to what the bosses make, or the folks in the back for that matter.

You make some very good points about OTHER unions. The corruption, the waste, the poor leadership. How does that apply to local 1108? What, exactly, has led you to see our local as "union business as usual?". All we did was ask for a fair wage. We all got a fairly nice raise. Anywhere between 30 and 50%. But we were making total crap wages previously (38K for a captain! Pathetic!), so it doesn't amount to anywhere near legacy carrier wages (or what they used to be). Most of our guys are NOT making 6 figures.

It just seems that you're almost angry about our success. Not sure why. And our local 1108 LISTENS to what we have to say. They've stood up for me every time the company violated the rules and I filed a grievance. That's good representation. They never pushed the company for anything extra, just that they follow the established rules. Is that so out of line?

Oh well, I guess you can't understand until you experience it (not past union experiences. I'm talking about 1108's experience).

 

[RustyFan]

The real discrepancy I have with you is that they aren't RELEVANT to the case at hand.

I’ll give you credit and accept your analogy of the situation at NJA. I do not have personal knowledge of the Teamsters 1108 other than:

• They were more ready than cop in a crack house to fire away during that pre strike period and call me a scab. Not to mention all the 135 pilots across the nation. Knowing full well the ALPA/IFL/Teamster criteria for status as a union strike breaker would not be met by EJA/NJI/NJE pilots operating their aircraft.
• They, not me authorized in writing the exception to your scope clause allowing the creation of NJI.
• They, not me are attempting to force a group of well deserving, good pilots into a union and most likely out of their aircraft.
• They overtly and quietly enforced a policy of breaking and writing up aircraft so as to cause the company grief and lost revenue.

Other than that, you’re right I have no knowledge of the inner workings of the Teamsters. But I just read where they represent the Alter Ego Airline *************************s out in STL. Now there’s a good for you… It’s your union, quite calling it the Association of Shared Aircraft whatever, or the 1108. You belong to the Teamsters!

As far as the FLOPS guys go, I can’t tell you what the right answer for that pilot group is. I think each individual must analyze the situation for himself and make the best career choice available. Yes, I acknowledge they are in a tuff situation.

As for your contract, all I have to say is it was about time. I think the wages and benefits are becoming for a group of professional pilots like NJA. Congratulations, hopefully now you’ve all stop your incessant b*tching and whining about Mr. Santulli and the fact he’s a multi-millionaire and your not.

 

[XPGuy]

I can tell you who it won’t be… NetJets International.

FLOPS Pilots,

• Go cut your tongues out, they are now useless. Your union will speak for you.
• Find the biggest sh*t bag on your property, he’s now the benchmark, and the person your union will fight to protect.
• Say adios to around 2% of your paycheck.
• Get use to hearing the company say, "sorry I can’t do that for you, it’s against the contract, and if I give you an extra day off for your moms funeral, the union will file a grievance against the company".
• Don’t get mad when you see your union leaders doing everything you thought they wouldn’t with your $$. If you thought your management made bad decisions, what until you see what 6 pilots do when they try to act like corporate executives.

Everything in life has two sides, you guys just decided to go the wrong way on a one way street. Good luck!

Wow. This guy has absolutely no clue how a union works. He couldn't be any further from the truth in every one of his bullet points. I pity him. And come November 2008, he will be on his way to joining the Net Jets 1108 when they go single carrier. ;-)

 

[RustyFan]

Wow. This guy has absolutely no clue how a union works.

Hey Num-Nuts; I bet I’ve paid more in union dues to ALPA than you made your first 5 years flying airplanes.

he will be on his way to joining the Net Jets 1108

And get it right there Deputy Dog… It’s the Teamsters, plain ole truck driving, Jimmy Hoffa, mafia owned Teamsters. The same ones that "speak" for the alter ego, union busting outfit HoJets out in STL.

You can put a million dollar gown on a heavy set girl….

She’s still just a fat chick in a pretty dress.

 

[GVFlyer]

Really? Where? I'm pretty sure Al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq until we went in first, on whose orders?

You are spectacularly uninformed.







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