Congrats AWA MEC......................

[Lampshade]

1853 AWA + 2422 AAA= 4275, approximately 44%

4275 Total + 1350(furloughed excluding those who have by passed)= 5625

1853 divided by 5625= 33%

The arbitrator has now defined "fair and equitable" for the seniority integration.

As Forest Gump says "thats all I have to say about that".

I am tired of this point, counterpoint, this could go on forever,so let's just all agree to disagree and let the arbitrator decide. I'm through.

You need the actual active pilots at the Sept 2005 merge date to do your math.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I thought binding arbitration was McCain's solution to neutering uppity airline labor and that ALPA rejected plans for it's use. So why was an outside arbitrator used here? Why not send it to a arbitration panel within ALPA so that there is some accountability for bad decisions?

 

[ALGFLYR]

So ALGFLYER,

What mainline aircraft did you fly ???


.

I flew the EMB-170. It was an aircraft on the AAA operating certificate. Every pilot that flew that aircraft is a pilot on the AAA system seniority list. Your point?? What did you fly?

 

[TWA Dude]

I thought binding arbitration was McCain's solution to neutering uppity airline labor and that ALPA rejected plans for it's use.

Firstly, arbitration with management is a whole different ballgame. These days, management always wins. Secondly, McCain favored a "baseball-style" arbitration whereby both sides presented their cases and the arb simply chose one side and that was it. Not a good option!

So why was an outside arbitrator used here?

Because it was part of the process dictated by the Transition Agreement. The two sides were unable to reach an agreement like they did for the 757's.

Why not send it to a arbitration panel within ALPA so that there is some accountability for bad decisions?

There's no benefit to gaining this "accountability" you seek. Having ALPA decide this kind of thing is a worse choice than an outsider because neutrality is not guaranteed.

 

[PHXFLYR]

This wasn't a lose for the AWA group....the airplanes were ordered before the merger. Therefore, you have no right to any of it. You get some of the jobs....be happy about it. Further, I don't see too many AWA folks wanting to commute to PHL.

I can imagine that AWA, with all their "growth" before the merger, gladly handing the east guys a bone with a few "jobs" from their newly acquired Airbus airplanes, right? Wrong.

All complaining aside....you all work for a profitable company right now that has the means to buy some more jets to make your airline a little more efficient which should mean better security and more jobs. Does that mean anything to any of you or are you going to complain until you retire?

A350

We were profitable before the merger announcement,too. Don't go thinking
you guys are our saviors because to be quite honest with you, you're not.

PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

I'm afraid ALPA is a necessary evil.

On another note why do you west dudes think you lost so much? If you could do it all over again with the east in the 757 and E190 situation,what would have you done differently?

Have you west dudes heard of any recalls lately that might be coming to your side of the fence?

Latest equipment bid results show 8 A320 F/O slots that will go to new hires which will probably be AAA furloughees at some point per the Transition Agreement. But why we should comply with that portion of the Transition Agreement while the AAA MEC seems to cherry pick only the parts that work best for them while ignoring the rest is beyond me...which,I am sorry to say,is what I will be telling my ALPA reps...


PHXFLYR

 

[Doug Parker]

Latest equipment bid results show 8 A320 F/O slots that will go to new hires which will probably be AAA furloughees at some point per the Transition Agreement. But why we should comply with that portion of the Transition Agreement while the AAA MEC seems to cherry pick only the parts that work best for them while ignoring the rest is beyond me...which,I am sorry to say,is what I will be telling my ALPA reps...


PHXFLYR

Time to start calling the AWA poolies !!!!




.

 

[ALGFLYR]

Latest equipment bid results show 8 A320 F/O slots that will go to new hires which will probably be AAA furloughees at some point per the Transition Agreement. But why we should comply with that portion of the Transition Agreement while the AAA MEC seems to cherry pick only the parts that work best for them while ignoring the rest is beyond me...which,I am sorry to say,is what I will be telling my ALPA reps...


PHXFLYR

What part of the transition agreement did the AAA MEC ignore?

 

[PHXFLYR]

What part of the transition agreement did the AAA MEC ignore?

What part of it did they NOT ignore whould be a better question ....


PHXFLYR

 

[FR8mastr]

What part of it did they NOT ignore whould be a better question ....


PHXFLYR

I think that was a good question. Since you would rather have new hires than get a furloughed guy off the street I would hope you have a reason other than lets hose the east guys just because.
Again what did AAA ignore?

 

[DustyBottoms]

I think that was a good question. Since you would rather have new hires than get a furloughed guy off the street I would hope you have a reason other than lets hose the east guys just because.
Again what did AAA ignore?

I doubt that any furloughed AAA guys are "on the street". They all have jobs with other airlines or have work in a different occupation.

To date, AAA has received all of the growth flying, so why shouldn't AWA hire some of their friends/family to fill some West slots? After all, the AAA guys have set precedence in looking out for their brothers.

AAA had planes on order prior to their bailout. AWA also had planes on order prior to their bailing out. All of the vacancies on the east side have been filled by the east, so why is it so unfair that when the west finally has some long waited vacancies to be filled, they are filled by the west?? The transition agreement has been ignored by the east, so why would a foul be cried if the west filled their slots with their people?

 

[ALGFLYR]

I doubt that any furloughed AAA guys are "on the street". They all have jobs with other airlines or have work in a different occupation.

To date, AAA has received all of the growth flying, so why shouldn't AWA hire some of their friends/family to fill some West slots? After all, the AAA guys have set precedence in looking out for their brothers.

AAA had planes on order prior to their bailout. AWA also had planes on order prior to their bailing out. All of the vacancies on the east side have been filled by the east, so why is it so unfair that when the west finally has some long waited vacancies to be filled, they are filled by the west?? The transition agreement has been ignored by the east, so why would a foul be cried if the west filled their slots with their people?

Its all about the East baby!

 

[PHXFLYR]

Its all about the East baby!

Of which you are not really a true part of.....



PHXFLYR

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I doubt that any furloughed AAA guys are "on the street". They all have jobs with other airlines or have work in a different occupation.

Actually there are quite a few still "on the street" ATA , and Polar dumped a bunch back on the street, many have been bounced around various bottom feeding 135 and corporate outfits, Many more are still stuck at a J4J position due to all the flying transferred to the regionals.

 

[PHXFLYR]

I doubt that any furloughed AAA guys are "on the street". They all have jobs with other airlines or have work in a different occupation.

To date, AAA has received all of the growth flying, so why shouldn't AWA hire some of their friends/family to fill some West slots? After all, the AAA guys have set precedence in looking out for their brothers.

AAA had planes on order prior to their bailout. AWA also had planes on order prior to their bailing out. All of the vacancies on the east side have been filled by the east, so why is it so unfair that when the west finally has some long waited vacancies to be filled, they are filled by the west?? The transition agreement has been ignored by the east, so why would a foul be cried if the west filled their slots with their people?

Very good summation. The easties were sure quick to post an equipment bid for the 3 additional 757's that came on line earlier this year without so much as a phone call to the west MEC.(The USAir types on this board seem to conviently leave that little fact out)This resulted in 55 of their guys getting recalled, to their airline and senority listwhich is a good thing. So I think in all fairness, the 8 slots should go to new hires off the street on our side. After all we are 2 seperate airlines operating under 2 different operating certificates. We just happen to be owned by the same holding company. Until we are operating as one combined airline under one certificate,this pea and shell game with the UsAir MEC should cease and desist immediatley. They have trashed more pilot senority lists with half baked ideas like J4J and the Transition Agreement than any other ALPA carrier that I know of.And the sad
part of it is ,it seems to benefit only them at the expense of anyone or anything that crosses their path. Gonna make for a long career working with this bunch..........


PHXFLYR

 

[Swaayze]

OK guys this has gotten ridiculous. Now we're fighting about putting street hires into these positions before furloughed East pilots because of an arbitrator's ruling that none of us had any participation in affecting. Personally I couldn't care less (as of today) as it would surely mean some people junior to me if I decide to return eventually, but come on. We can piss and moan all we want here but in a year we're all gonna be on one list, working for one company, and both pilot groups will be able to bid for positions IAW the arbitrator's ruling on the seniority list. To get our panties in a bunch is foolish and will only serve to keep wages/workrules at the bottom of the industry, not to mention that it will sap what little enjoyment is left in flying with good crews who get along. We all have our opinions of which airline would still be here and how many upgrades we're entitled to in the coming years, but the bottom line is none of us has a direct say so lighten up!

Jeez I hope I can find some other means of providing for my family that exceeds the package I'd get from coming back to U. The airlines have become a real joke and managment is laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Gofish]

Any westies know the address I can send my resume?

 

[ALGFLYR]

But why we should comply with that portion of the Transition Agreement while the AAA MEC seems to cherry pick only the parts that work best for them while ignoring the rest is beyond me...

PHXFLYR

I'm still curious what part of the Transition agreement the AAA MEC ignored...

 

[TWA Dude]

Any westies know the address I can send my resume?

I'll be happy to post it as soon as a hiring department is created. Probably not gonna happen for quite a while.

 

[Itsallsogood]

How about the 3 flights a day now that go PHX-SAN-PHX by AAA?

 

[TWA Dude]

How about the 3 flights a day now that go PHX-SAN-PHX by AAA?

That flying isn't prohibited by the Transition Agreement since we picked up other routes using the same planes. The TA prevents the company from using an East plane for a West flight segment that cancels, for instance.

 

[Hpilot]

Hpilot

I'm still curious what part of the Transition agreement the AAA MEC ignored...

One example: The transition agreement stated any new flying would be divided equally 50/50. We ended up with 1/3 after arbitration.

 

[ALGFLYR]

How about the 3 flights a day now that go PHX-SAN-PHX by AAA?

I think we also do MIA and/or FLL out of PHX. AWA does PDX-PHL as well. I'm not sure of any others...

 

[PHXFLYR]

One example: The transition agreement stated any new flying would be divided equally 50/50. We ended up with 1/3 after arbitration.

Any further questions,ALGFLYR?


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

I think we also do MIA and/or FLL out of PHX. AWA does PDX-PHL as well. I'm not sure of any others...

In what? The E170 or the Dash 8.....??


PHXFLYR

 

[Gofish]

I'll be happy to post it as soon as a hiring department is created. Probably not gonna happen for quite a while.

Thanks TWADude.

I flew with a bunch of TWA flowbies at eagle...y'all are a riot to fly with.

Mind if I PM you when West starts hiring? (after everyone on the list is called)

FISH

 

[ALGFLYR]

Any further questions,ALGFLYR?


PHXFLYR

Yeah, just one. Have you even read the Transition Agreement? Because you talk as if you know what is says. Please direct me to the part that says additional flying will be split 50/50. Let me save you some time... it doesn't.

The TA only says the flying must be distributed fair and equatable. Both sides must agree on what is fair or it goes to arbitration, which is what happened. A NEUTRAL person decided that.

 

[ALGFLYR]

One example: The transition agreement stated any new flying would be divided equally 50/50. We ended up with 1/3 after arbitration.

See reply to PHXFLYR above...

 

[Bubba Dog]

One example: The transition agreement stated any new flying would be divided equally 50/50. We ended up with 1/3 after arbitration.

The actual wording from the TA is "fair and equitable" not 50/50. The arbitrator used "fair and equitable" as his reason for 1/3 2/3.

 

[Green]

One example: The transition agreement stated any new flying would be divided equally 50/50. We ended up with 1/3 after arbitration.

Did we (AWA) f#ck this one up or what? I doubt we could have done any worse up to this point. The west coast attitude, laid back, 'lets be fair', bs isn't getting us anywhere but closer to the bottom of the list. The AAA guys are going to take every godd#$med job they can.

I think it's high time we stop being so spineless and demand a staple ala TWA/American. Very similar situation. TWA had no career expectations and AAA had no career expectations. I bet one could argue TWA was in better shape financially than AAA. I say we integrate the top couple hundred and then staple the rest. They are trying to do the exact same to us, but instead of using the staple word, they use DOH.