Compass agreement

[samballs]

I agree 100%. That is part of the MEC's goal. I am sure that it will be talked about in the next DCI meeting. If EV, OH, XJ, and Pinnacle want to have the rights that we are fighting for, for the CPS guys then they need to sign on to the exact same flow that they have. 100% bi lateral. Do that, and you will have a seat at the table. Until then you are just porturing.

Why PNCL, DL does not own them.

 

[clippyrip]

if XJ wants to modify their flow to %100 bilateral, then I have no problem with them being on a equal footing as CPZ.

Exactly! Want to go to the dance with the prom king then they need to put out.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Why PNCL, DL does not own them.

They do not own EV either. IMHO, wink wink, the ones listed will probably be the long term surviving DCI carriers.

 

[samballs]

They do not own EV either. IMHO, wink wink, the ones listed will probably be the long term surviving DCI carriers.

Thanks, just wondering.

 

[profit]

Heyas ACL,


Profit's apparent "glee" that the "all of your exciting staple resolutions got smacked down pretty badly at the LECs." (without bothering to check what resolutions were even offered) tells me that he feels that his group wants equal consideration without paying an equal share of the bill. That I DO have a problem with.


Nu

You mean you could actually see my smiling face? Or that you could hear my hands clapping together with joy?

And I don't think equal rights imply a need for equal sacrifice?

Maybe you should give up on inference. It doesn't appear to be your strong suit.

 

[NuGuy]

You mean you could actually see my smiling face? Or that you could hear my hands clapping together with joy?

And I don't think equal rights imply a need for equal sacrifice?

Maybe you should give up on inference. It doesn't appear to be your strong suit.

Heyas,

Very well, then, why don't you explain to all exactly what your position is rather than cackling at the legitimate efforts others are making?

Is it your position that the XJ pilots (or anyone else) are deserving of the same (or more) consideration as the CPZ pilots? What do you base your arguments on? Longevity? Seniority? Date of 121 certification of the airline?

If it can be made to happen, it will be done with, or without you. You can participate to the extent permitted by the process, or not. I would like to see you guys play ball, and reap some benefit.

But make no mistake, if you guys don't want to play and it comes down to reclaiming the flying without your participation, then too bad, so sad.

Nu

 

[profit]

Heyas,

Very well, then, why don't you explain to all exactly what your position is rather than cackling at the legitimate efforts others are making?

Is it your position that the XJ pilots (or anyone else) are deserving of the same (or more) consideration as the CPZ pilots? What do you base your arguments on? Longevity? Seniority? Date of 121 certification of the airline?

If it can be made to happen, it will be done with, or without you. You can participate to the extent permitted by the process, or not. I would like to see you guys play ball, and reap some benefit.

But make no mistake, if you guys don't want to play and it comes down to reclaiming the flying without your participation, then too bad, so sad.

Nu

Characterize it however you wish, i.e. cackling, jumping for joy, it doesn't really matter.

Why you are interested in my own personal opinion, I'm not sure.

The flow exists at Compass and Mesaba, period. It would seem fair to include other DCI carriers too though. The existence of flow is merely a by-product of the scope problems exiting bankruptcy.

Give everyone a chance to maintain position via a one-time bid. (if some 20 year Comair pilot doesn't want to go anywhere, don't mess with it).

But I really don't think any of this is going to happen. I doubt DAL management is interested in doing this. I think the operational synergies, efficiencies etc. mentioned in the staple-compass flyer are overstated, and aren't that great of a gain to DAL's bottom line.

I think what the small group of you guys are attempting to do is a nice idea, but this scope monster just seems to be something that may not be killable. And in the process, you are doing a pretty good job of offending a lot of the others who have put in far more years of sweat equity into DAL and NWA operationally than the vast majority of Compass pilots.

 

[BOHICAgain]

you are doing a pretty good job of offending a lot of the others who have put in far more years of sweat equity into DAL and NWA operationally than the vast majority of Compass pilots.

What makes you think that?

Compass is made up of a lot Pinnacle, Mesaba, Comair, ASA, Eagle, Xjet, ATA, and more. Just because Compass has been around for about 2 years does not mean the pilots have not been put "sweat equity" into DAL and NWA

 

[Raskal]

Overall, I'm a little confused. A couple of you guys have mentioned that for XJ to be "considered" for staple we need to have an identical flow as CPZ.

Um, why? With a staple there is no flow, sooooooo, what the hell are you guys talking about?

PS-I wish the the best for CPZ, as an XJ guy I'm not at all bothered by these initiatives nor do I feel like we're being "wronged" or some whiny bull$hit. Good for CPZ, it's what they wanted from day one, now we just have to see if this has a chance in hell of happening.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

There will probably never be a staple. 70%+ of the pilots over here want you to interview.
That is why a bi-lateral flow is the best that you can hope for under the current thinking.

 

[Raskal]

^^ Understood.

 

[~~~^~~~]

There will probably never be a staple. 70%+ of the pilots over here want you to interview.
That is why a bi-lateral flow is the best that you can hope for under the current thinking.

Mesaba fought the bilateral flow, have they changed their mind?

 

[N2264J]

You guys also didn't want a %100 bi-lateral flow. The ONLY reason you guys signed on to what little flow that XJ has, is because the hammer was coming down: "give us a flow down, or no shiny new jets".

When did ALPA whipsawing its own members start passing for unity or brotherhood?

 

[N2264J]

There will probably never be a staple. 70%+ of the pilots over here want you to interview.

Because Delta pilots are "partners with management." "Union" isn't their strong suit, outside of their own cult, regardless of what they say.

Tell me, did the PanAm pilots interview? Northeast? Western? Are they interviewing the Northwest pilots right now?

 

[PuffDriver]

When did ALPA whipsawing its own members start passing for unity or brotherhood?

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

 

[PuffDriver]

Because Delta pilots are "partners with management." "Union" isn't their strong suit, outside of their own cult, regardless of what they say.

Tell me, did the PanAm pilots interview? Northeast? Western? Are they interviewing the Northwest pilots right now?

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

 

[PuffDriver]

Because Delta pilots are "partners with management." "Union" isn't their strong suit, outside of their own cult, regardless of what they say.

Tell me, did the PanAm pilots interview? Northeast? Western? Are they interviewing the Northwest pilots right now?

Actually, Delta pilots don't hire. Delta does. We at Delta support the fact that management can be choosy with respect to who gets hired and who doesn't. One merely has to look at the last round of hiring to find the desirable/skilled pilots and the airlines from which they came, and one could also look at the airlines whose pilot ranks didn't fare so well in the skilled/desirable criteria.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Those were mergers as you know. DAL bought a like carrier. They did not operate them as a separate wholly owned entity. That was never their intention.
As you are seeing with NWA their desire is to merge the two groups, DAL and NWA, harmonize all of their operations and gain substantial cost saving to do so. This is why NWA pilots, Western and PanAm pilots do not interview for those jobs. They are merging them in to us. That was never the goal or desire of management with OH, EV, or XJ. CPS is a different animal, and we will see how they do that. The three other airlines mentioned are operated as separate carriers on their own tickets as wholly owned or now FFD carriers. It is not the desire or intention of management to change that.
Now, we as a union can work with management to realize savings of doing so, but management needs to play along to make that happen. Will it? The answer for the time being is almost always NO.

As Puff stated look at the people they hired this last round. 95% of them had Executive management experience, Flt Ops Operation, Training, or management experience. From the military pilots they had all of that too. Fact is that DAL can require a stellar resume from it candidates. Why? Because they always have, have always found the correct individuals, and the pool is full of these individuals.
As I stated in a previous post. You want to come to DAL, go to CPS where there is a direct flow, or go get the experience outside of flying the line that makes you stand out in the seat of over 12K qualified applicants. Next time around, I would venture to guess that we will see over 20K applicants. That is just to start.
Will they every get ride of the college degree requirement? Maybe. In the 2015 to 2025 time frame, they will need to be hiring 500 to 1000 pilots a year to just keep up with attrition. If there is ever a chance that is when it would happen. Now, I find it quite doubtful given who is in the wings being groomed to take over the Flt Ops leadership positions of tomorrow.

 

[profit]

What makes you think that?

Compass is made up of a lot Pinnacle, Mesaba, Comair, ASA, Eagle, Xjet, ATA, and more. Just because Compass has been around for about 2 years does not mean the pilots have not been put "sweat equity" into DAL and NWA

I'm curious how many Pinnacle, Mesaba, and Comair pilots are there. I believe somewhat in family scope, and if you came from another within the family, you should have some "family seniority". But I can barely think of a few Mesaba pilots who jumped ship for Compass. And the reason family matters some is because DAL and NWA intentionally ignore them when it comes to offering interviews in the first place.

As for time within the family, I'd say the VAST majority of -900 Captains at XJ have 10+ years.

 

[profit]

Mesaba fought the bilateral flow, have they changed their mind?

Does it not make sense to have protections for people who DON"T want to flow ever?

And I believe Compass has 10% protection language for protection rights as well don't they? Wouldn't that mean its not truly bi-lateral?