Comair union amenable to taking Delta pilots

[amcnd]

Some of you need to talk to some Eagle pilots, about the deal they had to get to AA. As it stands now, scence 98' 124 Eagle pilots to AA with a net gain of 3000 AA pilots. I wouldnt sell your the next 5 years of your life, for a posible chance to go to Delta.

 

[General Lee]

What happened to those flow ups at AA? They got to flow back to AA Eagle as Captains, right? Sounds like a good deal for any DCI member that moves up---a flow back to where you were before. Also, AA bought TWA and then dismantled it, and that hasn't happened over here.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DAL737FO]

Surplus1,

What complete garbage! Look you can't have it both ways. I thought the reason you guys had the RJ's was because it was beneath a mainline pilot to fly. That is what everyone has been saying on this forum. What you want to change the tune now? You state that in this concessionary TA that we were actually trying to take your 70 seaters away! Give me a break. You are not on the negotating committee or even a Delta pilot so how did you come up with this little gem? I am always amazed that the Mainline airline that has without argument the most liberal scope clause in the industry is always being hammered as oppressive. We have more RJ's deployed than any two mainline airlines combined and here are some upcoming facts for this new TA:

1. 150 70 seat RJ's then 1 additional 70 seater for every 10,000 mainline hours.
2. 25% of connection flying has to be flown by ASA and CMR (yeah that's right we provided you the scope that you never negotiated)
3. Preferential interviews for regional airlines that take a 70 seat jet above the previous 57 limit once Delta starts interviewing again. (you can laugh now but it will happen. It's the nature of the industry. It's a cycle)

Additionally 49% of all flying can be done by RJ's. So how is it that we are always portrayed as the evil mainline pilot looking to take the Regional pilots job.

B-727 Freight Dawg
Will eventually be back at Delta and will try my best to keep Comair pilots off property

 

[Heavy Set]

The general feeling I get from reading this thread is that no Delta pilot will ever be caught dead in the cockpit of a Comair CRJ. The question I have is....does the TA, should it pass, have specific language in it preventing any potential growth aircraft coming to Comair? If not, it seems to me that furloughed mainline pilots, should they want to continue to fly in the DCI network, may not have a choice.

I cannot speak intelligently about the recent motivation of the CMR MEC to support a policy to hire mainline pilots without resigning their senority number as I am not them. I will say that, from many of the pilots I have flown with and spoke to (at Comair) including myself, with exception most have been OK with the hiring of Delta pilots....from day 1! If I said it was anyone's number 1 priority I would be obviously lying. There is a big difference between being in support of it and trying to make it happen!

In my time at Comair I rarely have come into contact with a mainline pilot without hearing some sort of criticism about being a part of the Comair pilot group. It seems the first priority of a mainline pilot....whether on this board or in your jumpseat...is to establish your place in the pecking order. The rare exception would be when one of you are on MY jumpseat! The attitude I have generally encountered has hardly been a motivating factor to lobby anybody in your favor whether it be my MEC or otherwise. IMO, if I in any way represent our group of pilots, I could say I could care less one way or the other if we hire a mainline pilot. If we do thats fine...if not oh well. We do not all have to have a passionate point of view on this subject as so many do on this board!

No, I think a furloughed mainliner would, in fact, take a CMR FO position on the low end of the totem pole only because it is better than sitting on your a$$ at home.... My DAL friends tell me that the Comair guys shouldn't expect the reciprocity though because the damage has already been done (as you can sense by these replies). I can't even write down some of the vitriolic statements I have heard about the Comair group from some of my DAL buddies. Yeah, Lawson has done some serious damage.

I would bet that if a Delta furloughee who has not flown in years were offered either an ASA seat or a Comair seat today (and nothing else was available), the ASA seat would probably be taken unless location was a big issue.

 

[StaySeated]

Wholly P1ssing Match!

Jesus, you guys need to get laid! I have commuted amongst comair and DAL guys for a while and I have never witnessed anything close to the type of insane animosity demonstrated on this board. I have personnally witnessed DAL guys give up the jumpseat so a comair guy could sit upfront because his seniority number would not hold a seat in back. I have also seen comair crews go out of their way to get a DAL jumpseater on board when the braintrust gate said there was a weight problem. If some of you believe that one pilot group might have an effect on the hiring of another feel free. There must be something in the water down in cincinasty.

Group hug?

 

[DougCorp-9]

You people sure have a lot of time on your hands. Why don't you guys get a hobby?

 

[Tim47SIP]

Numbers?

here you go again, jumping on the feel good bandwagon. i realize it makes you feel good to blame the Comair pilots for your furloughs. it also makes you feel good to glorify the ASA pilots, who sat on the sidelines and did nothing (yeah that's right) to help hire your furloughs. eventualy, because of management, they hired 12 in a 2 year period (6 stayed). but either way, it was management.
Your numbers are wrong. There have been way more than that hired after we started hiring the second time. There are still more in the pile. The three Delta guys I got hired are all still there. I am being told by the GO an average of two per class. Not a great amount, but significantly more than your numbers. Additionally, at the time, I was personally approached by our LEC in DFW as to what I thought about it (D.U.) as the MEC was trying to get feedback at the time. He stated that my response was the concensous. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[Heavy Set]

Look, the situation would be different had ASA not taken on Delta furloughees... But ASA did and furloughees had an option other than the street. We're not talking about taking existing Captain slots or displacing existing FOs - we're talking about going directly to the bottom of the FO list - how would that hurt anyone?????

What's up with this "blame Comair for the furloughees" bullspit? Blame Bin Laden for the furloughees, but blame Lawson for seeking to exploit people in need. That's the point. This "change of heart" is so transparent and self-serving... There was no altruistic "support for your fellow pilots" attitude. And for that reason, the DAL mainliners are justifiably upset.

 

[SkylerS]

That's real mature Mike. You are a pitiful excuse for a "professional" and quite frankly, with that attitude and the reflected immaturity, we don't want you. As for the others who want to join a dedicated and proud group, I welcome you with open arms.

What's funny is that we would be your biggest ally. Have we caved in to management? No, we haven't. We struck and we said "no to concessions". I think that speaks volumes more than Skywest and many of the others accepting much lower pay. Of course ASA is to be commended for not "caving in", thanks guys.

As for the the issue you speak of, it is my understanding your MEC chairman (sorry, forgot his name) basically told JC what he was going to do. Would you say yes to anything that management told you to do, I seriously doubt it. It's all about attitude and I'm sure if your rep was open to other ideas or at least the discussion of, then there would have been a different outcome. FWIW, I expressed my desire to see Delta pilots here long before that encounter and as I mentioned above, I still do. You though, we certainly don't need.

-Sky

Meant to say that have NOT crapped all over our furloughed pilots.


And yes, thats how I really feel. F**K CMR, F**K lawson and ford. What come around goes around and when the time comes, myself and a lot of the Delta pilots are going to fight hard to keep any CMR pilots from being hired.

 

[737 Pylt]

No its a POS like you that divides Pilot Groups. It's JC Lawson, Cory Tennen and Bill Baker that you should channel your anger not the COMAIR pilots! That goes for the rest of you whinners! Nobodys laughing at anyones misfortune but with retoric like this coming from an ungrateful source, tempers flare!

The same can be said from the other side in reference to combining seniority status.Which I might add would have solved the furlough status for Delta mainliners and this arguement would not be occurring.

Hey spinproof. I see you came out from under the rock you're sharing with your rjdc pals.
Not having voiced thier opinion against support of our furloughees is just as bad! I did not see one voice of support!
Whiners, I think not. Pi$$ed, I think so!
Stop back when you have less time!
737

 

[spinproof]

Hey spinproof. I see you came out from under the rock you're sharing with your rjdc pals.
Not having voiced thier opinion against support of our furloughees is just as bad! I did not see one voice of support!
Whiners, I think not. Pi$$ed, I think so!
Stop back when you have less time!
737

Rock? Sounds like you'd like to get personal! I'd love to accomdate you. Feel free to email me with your avalible times and dates. I'm sure we can arrange a meeting for you to vent your anger.
RJDC pals ,yes I have many what that has to do with this isn't clear. What is clear is the support you now demand wouldn't be nessessary if a simple staple was agreed to a few years back.
What is also clear is that you are a whinner and a pu$$y. Apparently that goes with having a 737 type rating.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Hey, I have a good idea. Let's take all the Comair guys' battle stars away and replace them with something a little more obvious. I mean, it seems like we all need a little more reminding about the stand they took and how we should all recognize them for it, ad nauseum...


I'm thinking perhaps a large wooden cross. You guys would look fantastic hauling them around the terminal, and then we wouldn't ever forget your *ahem* sacrifice. As a plus, we could all be reminded about how the big, bad Delta pilots continue to trample on your rights and refuse to give you the respect you are due. Maybe we could even remember to bow when you pass by.........

Jeez.

 

[N813CA]

The Delta pilots I have read so far, real professional. If you act like this, I don't want to work for Delta. You make the most in the industry as well, and you give Comair a hard time because they make $2 more an hour then Air Wisconsin. From what I have read I have seen more mature comments from 8th graders. Is this why MAINLINE MAKES THE BIG BUCKS? Get a life. I am so sorry you have to make the decision to sell your summer home or have your wife go to work. Considering the HIGHEST PAID REGIONAL AIRLINE MAKES $24,000 HIS FIRST YEAR.

 

[General Lee]

N813CA,


I made a lot less than that in the early 90's. The reason we are mad is the "response" by your MEC leadership and the lack of response by your membership after our guys started getting furloughed. The key here is that you can't back any of your statements up, primarily because ASA helped and you did not, and you guys are sister airlines. It made no sense. And then, your leader Lawson just stated in the paper that the Comair MEC floated the idea last Summer to managment to help our furloughs out, after all of you guys on here said there was NO WAY TO BREAK THE 11th Commandment---"Thou shalt not hire a Delta pilot furlough without seniority resignation." What a joke. That is what we as a whole are mad about. The ASA pilots helped out when our guys NEEDED IT, and they will be rewarded. And, I treat all pilots well when on our jumpseat, and I am especially friendly to ASA and Chautaqua pilots now. I don't give Comair pilots cold stares, that is ridiculous. I just don't go out of my way to say hi.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[737 Pylt]

Rock? Sounds like you'd like to get personal! I'd love to accomdate you. Feel free to email me with your avalible times and dates. I'm sure we can arrange a meeting for you to vent your anger.
RJDC pals ,yes I have many what that has to do with this isn't clear. What is clear is the support you now demand wouldn't be nessessary if a simple staple was agreed to a few years back.
What is also clear is that you are a whinner and a pu$$y. Apparently that goes with having a 737 type rating.

First off, I sh1t bigger than you!
Besides, last night your momma didn't think so! But then again, she had her mouth full most of the night. Next time, you better have the trailer cleaned, and put some beer in the fridge.
737

 

[N813CA]

General Lee

You at least don't ## in my face and I will respect that and that is why I will respond. First of all, I also made less in the early 90's we all did. Times were good when Comair and Delta made their last contract. I strongly believe if Comair wasn't making between 20-45 million a quarter we would take a pay cut. Yeah I know, you will now say that our profit doesn't count because we don't have our own scheduling system, ect.... Comair made money before Delta bought them as well as now, I don't care if Comair makes even $20 million there is still a profit. I saw in the CVG paper 4 months ago, I know we can't believe what we see in the papers but they said that Comair has the lowest cost per seat mile in the DCI. Yet we are the most paid by 3 dollars compared to AW. Even ASA which is going through negotiations is only $4-5 less then us. Sorry to get off the main topic. I can't change your mind and I don't want to change your mind. The odds of Delta hiring in the next 10 years is pretty hopeless. I don't personally know JC, and that is why I don't think you should bash the whole pilot group. Just to give you an idea. Our pilot group did approve bringing you guys on last summer and keep your sonority. You know what our management said, so what we are still not going to do it. So we have tried, and I strongly feel that we have tried before, but if our management feels it is best not to, what are we suppose to do? There is a reason why Comair makes $20-45 million a quarter. There is also a reason why Delta bought us for so much money. In fact, I believe Delta paid more money to buy us than any other airline paid to buy an airline. What does that tell you.

 

[chperplt]

First off, I sh1t bigger than you!
Besides, last night your momma didn't think so! But then again, she had her mouth full most of the night. Next time, you better have the trailer cleaned, and put some beer in the fridge.
737

And you pretend to be a professional? How are we to take anything you say seriously when you act like an infant?

You sh!t bigger than him... What the hell does that mean???

 

[General Lee]

N813CA,


Ok, here we go again with the "we make money and you don't....." We could go around in circles on this, but obviously you guys would be better off on your own---you know, like successful Independence Air. Right........ I would hope that you make money---most of your routes used to fill 727s. And, that successful RJ hub---DFW---has really done well for us. Those CR7s on long transcons (DFW-OAK, DFW-JFK, DFW-FLL, DFW--DCA) have all done great. I know that was ASA's hub, but if you were in there you would have cost more and it still would have gone south.

Look, there is no doubt that the RJ can do well for us, but that is when it is put on the correct route. Just rember something, profits are opinions. There are always ways to move money around and make certain parts more profitable than others. You can depreciate aircraft and create losses. There are plenty of Wharton style tactics that can $crew with people. But, we all know that a full 777 to Europe or NRT really brings in the dough. And Grinstein said that we need large profits to pay down the debt. With our costs in line at mainline, expect more mainline participation and less 50 seat use. Sure, you did create some profits, and that is great. But, management is looking at your overall costs, and comparing it to Mesa and others. What will you say when asked if you want more growth in exchange for pay cuts? Will you stand up and say "Hey, you bought us for $1.5 billion, we are worth more!" I doubt that. Even Lawson said he knows they will be asking for more. How much are you worth? We didn't have a choice, do you?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[spinproof]

First off, I sh1t bigger than you!
Besides, last night your momma didn't think so! But then again, she had her mouth full most of the night. Next time, you better have the trailer cleaned, and put some beer in the fridge.
737

My Mother died in 2001. I think you are mistaken on meeting her.

Apparently you feel compelled to talk when you should listen. You are like a little boy that hides behind his mothers skirt shouting how tough you are. Demeaning people for something they had nothing to do. You are a weasel and a coward. The worst kind of coward one that thrives on blamming the guiltless for their missery.

God knows who you are pray I don't find out.

 

[737 Pylt]

God knows who you are pray I don't find out.

Now I'm really shankin in my boots!
Wow, someone must have really peed in your cheerios! I hope you don't have any pets with that kind of anger! Better not be piloting an aircraft either with all that hostility!
737