Comair to Vote on Growth in Exchange for PAY CUTS!

[FLB717]

I am a little sad over the strong path that the Comair Pilots had taken, and now regress from. Your F/A's who supported you during the strike will be wondering why you bothered their pay, some up to 6 mo with o work, just to take a freeze now. A 20% growth that helps the senior FO's and junior Capts only, and then puts you right back to this position, and puts pressure on the F/A's to take a freeze, in essence bending them over twice.

CHQ Pilots (2) that have crap a$$ attitudes on this post, it you EVER want to fly at AAI, give me your resume, I have a round bin to file it in for you. I don't want to fly with no brain, slack a$$ attitude punks like yourselves. Put your own house in order first, you have a ways to go to even be on par with Comair in wages and rules.

 

[Crossky]

Work rules aside, let's just look at pay why don't we.

I'm a second year CMR FO.. I make $37 an hour. IF this freeze takes effect, in 2007 I will become a 3rd year FO and get paid $38 an hour. My counterpart at CHQ currently makes $29 an hour (-8 bucks) now, and in 2007 at 4th year pay will make $34 bucks (-4 bucks).

So to recap.. I take a 2 year pay freeze and come out of it at year 3 longevity while you're now at year 4. (Following me??) I still make more money than you.

How pathetic is that?

That is pathetic, but a reason to vote yes in spite of it. At AWAC we were the first union group to vote yes, they put it to us for a vote inside of a month. They promised growth as long as all AWAC union groups took concessions, and if we would be the first, others would follow. We voted yes, then found out out company didn't even bid 70 seaters. The bankruptcy court approved us to continue operating but United didn't, because our lovely mechanics voted after the court said yes to us, and they voted NO. Now, we haven't grown one airplane over the orders we had in place before all this went down. United did permit us to transfer our 10 Airtran RJ's to UAX though. At the time we bent over Mesa was the only new UAX with the Dash-8's and by the next year United took on TSA and Chataqua as well. One thing we do have is a wage adjustment clause, and a good one. After what amounted to a 15% cut, no additional growth, and the displacement of ATL and DEN RJ pilots to ORD and IAD, our group is low. Chance of a yes vote to additional concessions: 10%. Even after all this (and I haven't even gotten started), the jury is still out on us, hopefully we'll hear from big blue this month.

So, chance of me being sympathetic to the best paid RJ pilots in industry for voting yes to a PAY FREEZE: 0%. These are the current market conditions putting pressure on y'all; just imagine how ComAir's position for growth will be if US AIR / Mesa and/or Indy parks their planes. I'm not into spreading misery guys but thanks for considering my 2 cents.

Peace.

 

[Tomct]

Comair guys...I hope you are able to shoot down this pay freeze! The company is playing poker with you and are hoping you blink! Hang tough...you guys had the b@lls to call the companies bluff before and won! Don't let any of these bottom feeders upset your thought process, they are just pissed that they are happy to be working for "Modern Day Lorenzo's!" Yeah, remember that Sh!t Bag! Well here's Johnny! Keep the faith guys/gals...We stand behind you here at ASA!
Flapper128...you and your 1500+ hrs need to sit down and shut up! You have'nt been in this industry long enough to even wipe your nose! It's guys like you that were happy to cross the picket lines and work for Sh!t wages just to fly "Shinny New Airplanes" and look where Eastern is today! In the words of Fat [email protected] Your Bloody Cake Hole!!!

 

[bvt1151]

Crossky,

I wish I didn't agree with what you said.

Its the hard truth.

 

[chperplt]

I am a little sad over the strong path that the Comair Pilots had taken, and now regress from

I really don't think the majority of CMR pilots are regressing at all.

I would stand to benefit greatly from this freeze in QOL, and I'm in no rush to vote yes.

I just don't like being told that we're a bunch of losers for listening to management. They have an idea.. let them share it with us and we can decide.

 

[Traumahawk]

CHQ Pilots (2) that have crap a$$ attitudes on this post, it you EVER want to fly at AAI, give me your resume, I have a round bin to file it in for you. I don't want to fly with no brain, slack a$$ attitude punks like yourselves. Put your own house in order first, you have a ways to go to even be on par with Comair in wages and rules.

What are you doing replying to this?? Go ask a Delta Mainline F/O why he's furloughed and then come back and talk about putting QOL and personal well-being first...

As you can see, Anyone can blame Anyone in this industry...stop blaming everyone and stop stereotyping. In the end it's the biggest hypocritical waste of time and energy you could partake in.
Just go fly and then go home. Enjoy yourselves, stop bickering.

 

[SASewerTubeFO]

I am a little sad over the strong path that the Comair Pilots had taken, and now regress from. Your F/A's who supported you during the strike will be wondering why you bothered their pay, some up to 6 mo with o work, just to take a freeze now. A 20% growth that helps the senior FO's and junior Capts only, and then puts you right back to this position, and puts pressure on the F/A's to take a freeze, in essence bending them over twice.

CHQ Pilots (2) that have crap a$$ attitudes on this post, it you EVER want to fly at AAI, give me your resume, I have a round bin to file it in for you. I don't want to fly with no brain, slack a$$ attitude punks like yourselves. Put your own house in order first, you have a ways to go to even be on par with Comair in wages and rules.

The crappy attitudes on this post, are from the Comair guys who are getting called out. BUSTED. You say so in the first paragraph.

.....And by the way, to have an opportunity to work for ValuJet, I think I will pass. Talk about the need to put their house in order to be on par with the other LCC at least in wages and rules.

 

[TWAER]

Let's just blame it all on Eagle.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Delta's fleet plans are being discussed on another thread. Whether or not Comair pilots take a pay cut, Delta is going to put the airplanes where they want to. Delta can have Ford and Harrison work on getting ten 121 certificates if they want and ALPA will help them do it. They are all a bunch of alter ego loving portfolio of partner swapping opportunists.

Didn't the RFP teach you guys anything?

There is one thing for certain. Pay cuts will not buy you airplanes. CHQ will probably match, or undercut you, then perhaps you can undercut them, etc.... there is always Gulfstream and an RJ is a much easier airplane to fly than an E120.

As far as the E170 being operated at Connection - it is already being done, by CHQ / Republic. Comair does need to get the latest generation of equipment on the property, but form what I've seen - management has not put anything in writing saying that they have dibs on any E170's. In fact, management has said that they want to keep their options open to play Embraer and Bombardier against each other - just like they are playing us against each other.

I for one am tired of being played.

 

[KingAirer]

It'll pass, and the result will be justified in one manner or another by the pilot group.

Was I right or what?

 

[FLB717]

Fins,

Your bring up some good points. Mine was that I don't know if you will see the F/A's follow, and if this needs thier ratification so it passes as a whole of the compnay, I doubt you will get it from them.

SaSewrtubeFO, Tramahwak,

Wow you let me have it, wow I am so stunned. Listen while you were trying to figure out how to flair in your C150 I and some other guys walked a picket line for 89 days so your a$$ and others could try and make more than a Mac-n-Cheese wage. So that is why I feel able to make a comment or two about the company I worked for. Why you afraid they may take YOUR jets and you won't be able to upgrade? As far as Value-Jet to CHQ, yeah I would rather be a VJ guy then you any day. Secondly check out my LCC wage compaired to USAir and UAL 737 rates, they are higher. Our MGT has asked us for cuts and we said NO. Why because the bar must be maintained and raised when able. But thank you for not wanting to work with me, that is the best news I have had all day.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

I for one am tired of being played.

The reality is that's the way it is, the way it has been, and the way it will always be. I know you and some of your "buddies" suffer from delusions that there is something you can do about it. Well, there is. Quit and find something else to do.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The reality is that's the way it is, the way it has been, and the way it will always be. I know you and some of your "buddies" suffer from delusions that there is something you can do about it. Well, there is. Quit and find something else to do.

No that is not the way it always has been. ALPA used to fight alter ego portfolio replacements effectively. At some other airlines this has not been a problem.

I've not been a quitter and certainly would not give up on something as important as trying to improve my profession and avocation.

But, we know where you stand. Thanks for contributing.

 

[ThisistheDream]

The way I look at it Comair pilots have already held the bar, actually they made the bar with thier last contract. They sacificed there jobs and pay for 89 days to get a descent contract at the regional level. They have ALREADY made a stance and said NO to concessions more than once, but when you say NO and others say YES, saying No does not good when they can give flying to others!!!. Since Comairs last contract noone else has taken a stance or risked there jobs to get a equal or better contract like the comair pilot group did during there stirke. Since then regionals have been taking paycuts or agreeing to much worse contracts then the one Comair currently has. If others would have made a stance and risked there jobs like Comair did then ALL of us wouldnt be in this position to bid for flying. People are saying "Comair hold the bar, dont give in or it will be your fault", well Comair has ALREADY did there part with there strike and saying NO to consessions last time!! We all need to start saying the same thing other wise your good job today will be someday elses good tommorrow for less than you make doing your job now. I am glad to hear Airtran pilots said NO to concessions to hold the bar for everyone, which is great considering Airtran current payscales is higher then USair, UAL, AA for same equipment..

 

[SASewerTubeFO]

Secondly check out my LCC wage compaired to USAir and UAL 737 rates, they are higher. Why because the bar must be maintained and raised when able.

LMAO! ARe you really comparing your wages to that of the 2 most bankrupt carriers USAirways and United??!! You can't be serious. Compare their wages 5 years ago to yours today.

Yea, the bar you set is really high. See ya.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

LMAO! ARe you really comparing your wages to that of the 2 most bankrupt carriers USAirways and United??!! You can't be serious. Compare their wages 5 years ago to yours today.

So, sewer head. Answer me this. What relevance do wages from ANYWHERE 5 years ago have to do with this industry today? Except showing the way to concessions or bankruptcy. Or do you just enjoy being a d!ck?

So Air Tran isn't giving back as of this point. Good for them. Too bad your 2-bit outfit can't say the same.

 

[Traumahawk]

So, sewer head. Answer me this. What relevance do wages from ANYWHERE 5 years ago have to do with this industry today? Except showing the way to concessions or bankruptcy. Or do you just enjoy being a d!ck?

So Air Tran isn't giving back as of this point. Good for them. Too bad your 2-bit outfit can't say the same.

Uh, he meant wages at those carriers a whole 5 years ago were more than AirTran's today. That was the 'relevance'

 

[SASewerTubeFO]

So, sewer head. Answer me this. What relevance do wages from ANYWHERE 5 years ago have to do with this industry today? Except showing the way to concessions or bankruptcy. Or do you just enjoy being a d!ck?

So Air Tran isn't giving back as of this point. Good for them. Too bad your 2-bit outfit can't say the same.

Douche Bag-
Air Tran is posting profit while United and USAirways are knee deep in losses. So comparing wages of a company in bankruptcy is ludicrous. I don't think ValuJet should take concessions there is no need. Compare their wages with other LCC Southwest and JetBlue as of now.

What is my outfit giving back at this point?

 

[Corbon]

Say what you want about Chautauqua, but I can't take an airline that has Elton John plastered on the side of a 717 seriously. Do you guys get together and sing "Candle in the Wind" on layovers?

 

[I.P. Freley]

Uhhhh... That is your gauge of how "serious" an airline is, what promotional deals they get into? What's painted on the side of the plane??

Man, these grapes sure are sour.....

 

[StaySeated]

Mr sewerguy,

You might want to tone it down just a notch or two. I know you have your atp written and thats just fantastic, but ripping on every other carrier besides the almighty chataqua may not be such a great gig. Even with all the anonymity I am feeling pretty embarrassed for you. I recommend reading an aviation history book, one that isn't bright red written by Gliem, and you might begin to appreciate why some pilots take offense to your strong, insulting statements. Fly safe.

 

[Corbon]

Uhhhh... That is your gauge of how "serious" an airline is, what promotional deals they get into? What's painted on the side of the plane??

Yes, that's why I'm in negotiations with Air Supply to sponser Chautauqua.

 

[FLB717]

Better to have Elton on the side of an airplane than in it!

I guess I should pay more attention to the thoughts a 1200 and 1500 hour FO do replacement flying of another DCI carrier who they undercut. On second thought naaa.

 

[Afixedwing]

**drunk angry post deleted**

 

[BluDevAv8r]

.....And by the way, to have an opportunity to work for ValuJet, I think I will pass. Talk about the need to put their house in order to be on par with the other LCC at least in wages and rules.

SASewerTubeFO,

This is one of the most uninformed and vitriolic posts I have read on here in a long time. There is no more ValuJet. Airtran, however, has one of the best agreements out there at the moment. They have industry leading rates for the 717 and highly competitive rates for their 737's. Furthermore, they have a 10.5% B-Fund as well as REAL daily trip and duty rigs of 1:3.5 and 1:2 respectively. I could go on but I won't....I have read and analyzed your contract, Comair's contract, and Airtran's contract extensively (amongst others) and let me be the first to set you straight on the fact that Airtran's agreement is significantly better than any 50 seat operator, including CHQ. Furthermore, their overall W-2's are going to be as good as any LCC with the exception of SWA.

-Neal

 

[sleeve]

Chautauqua SUCKS, and we still will make more money than you before, during, and after a freeze, if we even take it.

 

[General Lee]

Chautauqua SUCKS, and we still will make more money than you before, during, and after a freeze, if we even take it.

The CHQ guys will make more when they eventually come to Delta.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BoilerUP]

Okay everybody, quit the pissing match and put your d!cks back in your pants just long enough to think this through.

CHQ pilots have caught crap from some pilots from most of the "better" regionals out there since they signed their contract, so its only natural to want to rub it back in their face when it becomes their turn.

-however-

You would be dayam ignorant and naive if you failed to realize that this isn't the fault of any one pilot group, its the fault of ALL pilot groups. We are all collectively our own worst enemy, and it is FOOLISH to gloat at another group's misfortunte and having to take paycuts. BB has already said concessions from CHQ could be necessary in the future, and there was much gnashing of the teeth over that. Quit gloating, it makes some of you look like fargin' middle school kids.

Rosa must have been in a pinch to fill some classes this past year to get some of the upstanding aviation citizens who have posted in this thread. Guess what: upgrades might be running around sub-2 years now, but look at the big picture and be smart enough to realize the ridiculous growth that allowed you to be hired is soon to slow down. And that 18 month upgrade will disappear with it.



You may now return to your reguarly scheduled pissing contest.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

The CHQ guys will make more when they eventually come to Delta.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General, you shouldn't post in the middle of the night when you are drunk.

 

[I.P. Freley]

I guess I should pay more attention to the thoughts a 1200 and 1500 hour FO do replacement flying of another DCI carrier who they undercut. On second thought naaa.

Kinda like the DCI carriers are doing replacement flying of Delta who.... On second thought naaa.