Comair is done

[crj567]

No worries, ALPA is going to get all those furloughed pilots new jobs.

Yeah they will. There is brisk demand for banging yer mom!

-Growth industry indeed!!

 

[amcnd]

9E/EV/OO all face the same axe.

OO's contract has min airframes and min block hours.. And they still have 10 years on there contract...

 

[WayBack]

Yeah they will. There is brisk demand for banging yer mom!

-Growth industry indeed!!

Wow, another mom joke. How old are you? Oh, wait I forgot. You're just some miserable old man who decided to make a regional into your career, and you're now regretting it.

 

[WayBack]

OO's contract has min airframes and min block hours.. And they still have 10 years on there contract...

That's funny right there. How many other regionals have min airframe in their contract, and now they're either out of business or below that min number?

Reality check, your little ALPA contract is worthless.

 

[Clancy]

Wow, another mom joke. How old are you? Oh, wait I forgot. You're just some miserable old man who decided to make a regional into your career, and you're now regretting it.

Comair has got plenty of those.

 

[wms]

9E/EV/OO all face the same axe.

In 10-15 years when our contracts end. Being a WO Comair didn't have that in their corner.

 

[DHPFLYN]

A certain Mark Twain quote comes to mind.

While I am a pilot at Comair, I will try for a moment to think as a dispassionate observer.

Delta is playing the Comair card brilliantly. While they could have sold Comair to Skywest, they set the terms too high and it just wasn't an attractive deal for Skywest. They will use Comair as a foil to drive costs even further down at other regional carriers. Comair wasn't sold because they are worth more to Delta as part of their ongoing strategy to reduce costs across the board.

I predict (and please don't beat me up for this) that all three unions at Comair will take concessionary contracts. Yes, there will be some loud proclamations of "full pay to the last day," but in the end given the choice of making $85,000 as a Captain or $36,000 as an FO most will choose the former.

This is what it is all about: driving costs down, and not just at Comair.

Coming soon, to an airline near you!

You are spot on. We all need to take a stand against this crap. I am all for everyone one of us at every airline just walk out. They can't fire us all. Just like they do in Europe. Tell them when we are going to and just do it. Stop *************************ing around.

 

[tiffanytaylor]

Everyone, there are people in the crew room today to answer your questions. Not the execs of course. I can't go but wanted to tell you in case you don't know. Union Reps.

 

[WayBack]

Everyone, there are people in the crew room today to answer your questions. Not the execs of course. I can't go but wanted to tell you in case you don't know. Union Reps.

Ah, so they're in there shoveling it down pilots throats some more.
Let me guess "We had no idea this was going to happen, think positive, fly safe, check list, check list, check list...and don't forget to wear your hats. Oh, by the way..we need more dues, turns out Derrick's golf clubs were stolen at our last convention. He was there working for YOU!"

 

[bailout]

Emirates will not even look at CRJ drivers?

Who told you that? I can name 5-6 ASA guys that went there with only CRJ time.

And No, you dont have to live there. Its a hellova commute but I know people that do it.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

You are spot on. We all need to take a stand against this crap. I am all for everyone one of us at every airline just walk out. They can't fire us all. Just like they do in Europe. Tell them when we are going to and just do it. Stop *************************ing around.

Good luck with that, I'd bet that 95% of the Comair pilot that remain if everything in this memo comes true would thumb their nose at you just as they did in 2001. The ones that won't lose their jobs at Comair because of this are exactly the ones that SHOULD be losing them...

 

[brokedash]

In 10-15 years when our contracts end. Being a WO Comair didn't have that in their corner.

Delta doesn't have regional contracts that can't be fixed in there favor.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Who told you that? I can name 5-6 ASA guys that went there with only CRJ time.

And No, you dont have to live there. Its a hellova commute but I know people that do it.

It is a NEW development. They are not interviewing CRJ guys anymore. Maybe been 8-10 months since the "new" policy

 

[P38JLightning]

It's a negotiation. Delta wants us to work for free. We don't want to work for free. It's in the middle somewhere. I'm sure that if we make the deal of the century with Delta (we have a shill management called "Comair") they won't furlough anyone. Why would they? They aren't getting rid of ALL of their 50 seat lift, and if we agree to work significantly cheaper than other carriers guess where all that flying goes?

I think that more than anything Delta wants to use us as leverage.

Maybe its time to deal them an ace?

 

[agonyairfo]

Bugsmasher plus- Again, what is happening at Comair has nothing to do with the strike and -makersmarc- nothing to do with trying to get concessions. It is bigger than that. Or at least more immediate than that. Delta wants to lose 50s. This is the only place to do that. Sorry Comair is what it amounts to. We have way too many 50s and Delta hates them. I agree with you in an indirect sense that the strike, i.e., subsequent better contract, led to lack of growth more recently and that has left us in this position of a shrinking fleet and aging 50s. (If we were Republic we would be flying 170s not aging 50s.) But, right here right now, at present day Comair we have old 50s and no contract/protection to operate them for the next 10 years. Delta can yank them now if they want to, and they want to.

Now, Delta (like the Obama administration) will not allow this opportunity/catastrophe/crisis to go to waste. They will ask for concessions and maybe pretend that's what this is about. In their mind it is probably never a bad time to get a concession. But we all know that a pay cut will not save a single job here and now. These 50s are slated to go away period. They aren't going to re-sign leases or do heavy checks. Does anyone really think that Delta wants to operate these 50s? As if Delta sending 60 airframes to the desert (or wherever they go) is about a few dollars an hour of pilot pay. The number that go away and the rate of their departure may vary a little, but in 2 years, maybe 3 they are basically going to be off the Comair property. (At which time 400 some super senior pilots flying a handful of 700/900s will create it's own problems.)

Delta will however not do a thing to change the perception that they are playing "hard ball" with Comair and you other DCI carriers better watch out. Don't believe it. These planes are going away from Comair becuase we are in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's it. So don't let management threaten you with turning out like Comair if you stand up for yourselves. I bet there is a pilot or two at Comair who still thinks that if only he had used a little less APU and sweated a little more and saved the company a few more cents, 56 airplanes wouldn't be on the way out.

If Delta just wanted to whipsaw and drive down DCI costs, then in 2 years time there would still be the same number of 50s flying under DCI. They'd just be transferred to the cheapest carrier. But there won't be. There will be a lot less 50s in Delta colors and they unfortunately are all coming out of Comair.

I am not being naive. This is different from other times they have made threats. This is not just management up to their old tricks. This is a shift in the industry. In this monkey see monkey do business they have all decided that 50s are yesterdays news and the future is 100+seaters or whatever else. This is game over. Like, Delta is saying "your fired." (Donald Trump style) Some of us are still stuck on thinking that they just want us to take a pay cut. But the Don is like, "No, pack up your desk and leave.You are really fired." And we are thinking that now he is just playing hardball. And he is like, "No really, I am calling security. How can I be any more clear? YOUR FIRED!"

Reality check. Delta just dropped what, 800 Comair ramp employees in CVG with 30 days notice. In 1 - 2 years more than half of us will be joining them on the street. No reprieve. It sucks. I hope I don't sound cavalier about this, but I've been through this twice now. I feel like some of us are still thinking that things will work out. This is really happening.

Good luck too all.

 

[igneousy2]

Bugsmasher plus- Again, what is happening at Comair has nothing to do with the strike and -makersmarc- nothing to do with trying to get concessions. It is bigger than that. Or at least more immediate than that. Delta wants to lose 50s. This is the only place to do that. Sorry Comair is what it amounts to. We have way too many 50s and Delta hates them. I agree with you in an indirect sense that the strike, i.e., subsequent better contract, led to lack of growth more recently and that has left us in this position of a shrinking fleet and aging 50s. If we were Republic we would be flying 170s not aging 50s. But, right here right now, at present day Comair we have old 50s and no contract/protection to operate them for the next 10 years. Delta can yank them now if they want to, and they want to.

Now, Delta (like the Obama administration) will not allow this opportunity/catastrophe/crisis to go to waste. They will ask for concessions and maybe pretend that's what this is about. In their mind it is probably never a bad time to get a concession. But we all know that a pay cut will not save a single job here and now. These 50s are slated to go away period. They aren't going to resign leases or do heavy checks. Does anyone really think that Delta wants to operate these 50s? As if Delta sending 60 airframes to the desert (or wherever they go) is about a few dollars an hour of pilot pay. The number that go away and the rate of their departure may vary a little, but in 2 years, maybe 3 they are basically going to be off the Comair property. (At which time 400 some super senior pilots flying a handful of 700/900s will create it's own problems.)

Delta will however not do a thing to change the perception that they are playing "hard ball" with Comair and you other DCI carriers better watch out. Don't believe it. These planes are going away from Comair becuase we are in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's it. So don't let management threaten you with turning out like Comair if you stand up for yourselves. I bet there is a pilot or two at Comair who still thinks that if only he had used a little less APU and sweated a little more, 56 airplanes wouldn't be on the way out. If Delta just wanted to whipsaw and drive down DCI costs, then in 2 years time there would still be the same number of 50s flying. Just transferred to the cheapest carrier. But there won't be. There will be a lot less 50s in Delta colors and they unfortunately are all coming out of Comair.

I am not being naive. This is different from other times they have made threats. This is not management up to their old tricks. This is a shift in the industry. In this monkey see monkey do business they have all decided that 50s are yesterdays news and the future is 100+seaters or whatever else.

Exactly. Great Post!

 

[Bull]

Who told you that? I can name 5-6 ASA guys that went there with only CRJ time.

And No, you dont have to live there. Its a hellova commute but I know people that do it.

I also know more then dozen CRJ Pilots from Comair with EK hired in 2007/2008. I think last year they changed their weight requirment so even those who were hired were rejected employment due to the very same reason. I know couple of guys personaly who were denied employment from the holding pool because of weight.

 

[higherflyer]

I know couple of guys personaly who were denied employment from the holding pool because of weight.

It seems kind of harsh to hold a personal thing like weight against them. If your pals were underweight, they could just double up on the free breakfasts at the Sleep Inns and the inflight snacks or if overweight, offer to carry all the crew bags up and down the steps of the plane, drink the Diet Cokes instead of the regular ones and stay away from the Biscoffs!

 

[Varmint]

It is a NEW development. They are not interviewing CRJ guys anymore. Maybe been 8-10 months since the "new" policy

Funny you know it all. I know a guy who just got hired there from ASA with only crj time. If your truely interested put your stuff in and try, the worst they can say is no....that was his motto and he got it. If your not interested and just want a free trip to DXB use your flight benefits, dont ruin it for those RJ drivers who really want it.

 

[Bugsmasher Plus]

Bugsmasher plus- Again, what is happening at Comair has nothing to do with the strike and -makersmarc- nothing to do with trying to get concessions. It is bigger than that. Or at least more immediate than that. Delta wants to lose 50s. This is the only place to do that. Sorry Comair is what it amounts to. We have way too many 50s and Delta hates them. I agree with you in an indirect sense that the strike, i.e., subsequent better contract, led to lack of growth more recently and that has left us in this position of a shrinking fleet and aging 50s. (If we were Republic we would be flying 170s not aging 50s.) But, right here right now, at present day Comair we have old 50s and no contract/protection to operate them for the next 10 years. Delta can yank them now if they want to, and they want to.

Now, Delta (like the Obama administration) will not allow this opportunity/catastrophe/crisis to go to waste. They will ask for concessions and maybe pretend that's what this is about. In their mind it is probably never a bad time to get a concession. But we all know that a pay cut will not save a single job here and now. These 50s are slated to go away period. They aren't going to re-sign leases or do heavy checks. Does anyone really think that Delta wants to operate these 50s? As if Delta sending 60 airframes to the desert (or wherever they go) is about a few dollars an hour of pilot pay. The number that go away and the rate of their departure may vary a little, but in 2 years, maybe 3 they are basically going to be off the Comair property. (At which time 400 some super senior pilots flying a handful of 700/900s will create it's own problems.)

Delta will however not do a thing to change the perception that they are playing "hard ball" with Comair and you other DCI carriers better watch out. Don't believe it. These planes are going away from Comair becuase we are in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's it. So don't let management threaten you with turning out like Comair if you stand up for yourselves. I bet there is a pilot or two at Comair who still thinks that if only he had used a little less APU and sweated a little more and saved the company a few more cents, 56 airplanes wouldn't be on the way out.

If Delta just wanted to whipsaw and drive down DCI costs, then in 2 years time there would still be the same number of 50s flying under DCI. They'd just be transferred to the cheapest carrier. But there won't be. There will be a lot less 50s in Delta colors and they unfortunately are all coming out of Comair.

I am not being naive. This is different from other times they have made threats. This is not just management up to their old tricks. This is a shift in the industry. In this monkey see monkey do business they have all decided that 50s are yesterdays news and the future is 100+seaters or whatever else. This is game over. Like, Delta is saying "your fired." (Donald Trump style) Some of us are still stuck on thinking that they just want us to take a pay cut. But the Don is like, "No, pack up your desk and leave.You are really fired." And we are thinking that now he is just playing hardball. And he is like, "No really, I am calling security. How can I be any more clear? YOUR FIRED!"

Reality check. Delta just dropped what, 800 Comair ramp employees in CVG with 30 days notice. In 1 - 2 years more than half of us will be joining them on the street. No reprieve. It sucks. I hope I don't sound cavalier about this, but I've been through this twice now. I feel like some of us are still thinking that things will work out. This is really happening.

Good luck too all.

I agree what you are saying about the 50 seaters, but why does Comair still have so many 50 seaters? Once again, it goes back to the cost factor and the inability for the company to grow into other equipment like the others did. The root of the issues began in 2001, prior to that (and even after the DAL purchase) the company was still the prime target for growth and expansion. After 2001 it was nothing more than status quo while all the other regionals were getting more flying because the cost was so much more competitive.

This is my personal opinion after spending many years there and watching how this whole thing has played out. I think that the airline is simply going to shrink and if the unions don't want to be competitive, the company is just going to vanish because nobody is going to want to play with radical MEC on the property. They have made the company unmarketable, not just in cost, but in the manner of which they do business.