Comair hires Delta pilots...

[DAL737FO]

This is what we plan on doing for you, we plan on not letting another Comair pilot get hired at Delta. This gesture didn't change anything. You think one single Delta pilot is going to accept a job at Comair when Delta is recalling 30-50 a month.

Dont you think that there is a reason for the Delta MEC to work out a deal with Comair. I would like to know what deal you guys are talking about. Our MEC, DALPA, has said nothing about making a deal with COMAIR for hiring. Not a peep. As skydriver implied, there will more than likely be MORE furloughs. I would have agreed with you a few months ago, I'm a furloughee and I do watch these things pretty closely, but Delta only had to recall 30 in Oct but they recalled 50 instead and that was not in an arbitrators ruling. Additionally recallees are going to aircraft larger than the entry level aircraft which would make us believe that they are short of pilots. The last word that was put out at the road shows a few months back was a total work force of 5000 pilots. What freaking road show are you talking about? Recalls are only ocuring becasue Delta was forced to. See above. Will reitrements compensate for the numbers, I surely hope so, but I dought it. There has to be a plan brewing that the Delta MEC is working on to bring the excess furloughs to the DCI property (which I fully agree with). This has never been brought up in any DALPA meeting. Hence the agreement. What freaking agreement? That Comair will hire Delta furloughees after your MEC in Nov 92 said that it would be bad for CRM when asked by Comair management. He wouldn't need it if all of the recalls were to happen. My guess is more 70's with the stipulation that some Delta furloughs get to fly them. Any seat over the 57 70 seaters that is in the contract belongs to DCI, number 58 and above see you at the negotiating table. But it is anyones guess.

Sorry not buying it and not changing my mind just like the majority of furloughees that I talk to. The recall has started. Delta needs pilots. Now Comair wants to make nice. Someone tell me where this quote came from "Nuts" because that is how I feel right now.

 

[FlyingSig]

DAL737 beat me to it.... if there's been one thing SDD has been consistant with over the years is spreading false information.

Comair put out a VARs that says they will ask comair management to hire DAL furloughees without senoirity resignation. Whoop tee doo....

The DAL MEC did not negotiate this. Comair management is under no obligation to listen to the Comair MEC request.

Now that those simply facts are out of the way here's a few opinions.

When Comair wouldn't hire DAL furloughees the tone was "it'll be unsafe to have these two pilot groups sharing a cockpit" "we'll burn the place down" etc.. etc... So what's changed? The very real threat of Chapter 11 and a judge telling Comair to move over because he's sticking Delta pilots in your seat as he tears apart both contracts. The Comair MEC had to put a "good faith" (BS) effort on the table so they can tell the judge...look at us, we offered them jobs and they didn't take them, so you should give all that flying to us now...

There is much deeper meaning behind this VARS message and helping a DAL furloughee is simply an unlucky byproduct of the Comair MEC's"big picture".

 

[FinalOverERI]

I just don't get it..........???

I ask this question as an outsider:
What in the hell does the Comair pilot group have to do with Comair Management's hiring practices??? Seriously? There's got to be something I'm just not seeing (or not).

Here's the way that I can only guess the conversation would go:

Comair MEC: We want you to hire the furloughed Delta pilots without requiring them to resign their Delta seniority number.

Comair Mgt.: Just shut up and go fly your airplanes.

OR,

Comair MEC: We don't want you to hire any furloughed Delta pilots.

Comair Mgt.: Just shut up and go fly your airplanes.

Like the Comair pilots have any say? Yet the pilot group is continuously villified and crucified. WTF? I'm seriously confused.

Please explain it to me. What am I missing??????

 

[FlyComAirJets]

You'll just have to get in line to blacklist us.

"This is what we plan on doing for you, we plan on not letting another Comair pilot get hired at Delta. This gesture didn't change anything. You think one single Delta pilot is going to accept a job at Comair when Delta is recalling 30-50 a month[?]"

Thanks for the love, bro. The decision not to hire Comair pilots was made well before you had your little hissy fit -- it dates back to the spring of '01 when we went on strike. At that time, DAL management cancelled and sent home all Comair pilot applicants, even ones who were down in Atlanta for the interview. Jumpseat home, fuggeda 'bout it! (Thank the Bumpster for that) You guys must have been too busy falling over themselves crossing our little old picket line to notice.

If you believe DAL is going to continue to recall "30-50 a month" in their current precarious state then you need to change your screen name from bigebe02 to big doobie for what you must be smoking. But then, you will probably blame us for that, too.

I'm sure the Comair MEC's statement will contain all the veracity that the Delta MEC's did a decade ago when they endorsed the hiring of Eastern pilots. (Not to worry, I am sure Delta would have hired YOU anyway with your vast experience) Ever fly with even one rEAL pilot? Ever wonder why?

Later.

 

[DL_Infidel]

Sorry not buying it and not changing my mind just like the majority of furloughees that I talk to. The recall has started. Delta needs pilots. Now Comair wants to make nice. Someone tell me where this quote came from "Nuts" because that is how I feel right now.

Band of Brothers....Part 6 Bastogne

Colonel Sink reading a letter to Easy Company from General McCallaugh. "Nuts" is his response to the German commander demanding the surrender of the surrounded US forces at Bastogne.

Sorry, got a lot of time on my hands being unassigned.


DL_Infidel

 

[bigebe02]

Thanks for the love, bro. The decision not to hire Comair pilots was made well before you had your little hissy fit -- it dates back to the spring of '01 when we went on strike. At that time, DAL management cancelled and sent home all Comair pilot applicants, even ones who were down in Atlanta for the interview. Jumpseat home, fuggeda 'bout it! (Thank the Bumpster for that) You guys must have been too busy falling over themselves crossing our little old picket line to notice.

One question...did the Delta pilots give your guys rides home? Did the Delta pilots cause this?


Crossing your picket line? You know **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** well we didn't do any flying other than our own. We had ALPA guys all over our crew rooms making sure Delta didn't sneek a 757 on an MD-88 trip to put more seats into any city you guys served. . But what am I arguing with you for? I honestly didn't know (if it is true) that DAL sent your guys home during your strike. You had my support and the support of every DAL pilot I came in contact with. Sounds to me like your problems lie with our Management.


Keep me posted on the RJDC's progress.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Demand vs. yield; capacity or profit?

How do you know what routes are profitable? Just because the plane is full does not mean the flight is profitable.

The right plane for the right route, true. But by what definition. If the planes are full, you probably have the right plane for the job or could use a bigger plane or add more frequency. It is a matter of yield management. You RJ-guys are being a little rough on 350 and are not considering all the factors.

I guess it is tough not to get a distorted view while looking at the situation from your cockpit window!

Jeff

 

[:-)]

If this string is truly indicitive of the situation regarding Delta's: management vs DALPA vs DCI vs ComairALPA vs RJDC vs mainline rank and file vs Comair rank and file vs ASA rank and file vs et al, you guys are going down.

You people need a benevolent dictator, you know, sort of a King Solomon type person.

In the mean time: SWA, AirTran, JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier, continue to get stronger and stronger. Heck, even Cactus, AA, CAL, and NWA are looking better than Delta.

Good Luck,
Hobbes

 

[T-Gates]

You guys must have been too busy falling over themselves crossing our little old picket line to notice.

Sweet jesus...Please put down the crack pipe....Did any DAL pilot knowingly fly struck work? Hell No!

Now you're just reaching.....

 

[skydiverdriver]

Sig,

What false information are you referring to? If you find something I said that was false, please let us all know. Honestly, I expect more from you than false accusations with no information to back them up.

Bigebe02,

What is the PID? Are you serious? How long have you been in this industry? For all of you new guys, I will explain. Back about four years ago when Delta purchased ASA and Comair, our MEC asked for a PID. That stands for Policy Implementation Date, and basically it makes the union follow it's own written bylaws that state they will try to do everything they can to integrate a new airline when it is purchased. They wouldn't even speak to us about it, but later said we weren't "operationally integrated." That arguement could go on forever, but if they had TRIED to merge us, they might not have any furloughees or any scope issues with their "regionals." You might want to a bit of research on this stuff before you speak about it. Just look up all the posts from FDJ or Surplus1, and you will see what it's all about.

 

[CheapFlyer]

First, what Legal obligations are you referring to?

Second, the Delta Pilots haven't done anything for you? Weren't you around when Delta was hiring? Delta was giving preferential interviews to ASA and Comair. In my class of 20 there were 11 Military and 9 Civilians. Out of those 9 Civilians two were Comair and two were ASA. That is 40% of the Civilian population."

In my book, that is NOT preferential interviews for ASA and Comair pilots. That is preferential interviews for military pilots who do not fly Delta passengers and are not even ALPA members.
Besides during the Comair strike, the fact is, Delta pilots have never shown any interest in trying to get along with its regional partners. We have tried for the past 4 years to create a mutually beneficial relationship and absolutly nothing has been accomplished.
The only way we are ever going to get management to give a rats a$$ about our job security is if we force them to. This will never happen as long as we are all fighting each other. We need to have a goal, and need to work towards that goal TOGETHER!

-CF

 

[T-Gates]

We need to have a goal, and need to work towards that goal TOGETHER!

So if that is the sentiment on the DCI side of the camp, why do so many of you sign your RJDC checks every month?? That seems to show me that you are just as guilty of driving a spike between pilot groups as anyone else.

It seems to me the damage is irrepareable....

 

[CheapFlyer]

So if that is the sentiment on the DCI side of the camp, why do so many of you sign your RJDC checks every month?? That seems to show me that you are just as guilty of driving a spike between pilot groups as anyone else.

My guess would be that if our MEC's had a common goal that both sides would benefit from there would be no RJDC. We should have been working together from the day we we were bought. We could have used the last 4 years to come up with a common goal, but that time is now lost - we just wasted it bickering back and forth on flightinfo.com. I personally think the majority of RJ pilots are open and willing to work with mainline pilots, but we just don't want to get the short end of the stick just because your aiplane is bigger than ours.
Although, on the other hand, with the potential for bankruptcy right around the corner maybe this "we are seperate - each man for himself" attitude is the only "protection" we have from the sinking ship.

It seems to me the damage is irrepareable....

What "damage" are you refering to?

 

[MadDogMike]

Another Comair pilot lie exposed:

From the DALPA Communications Comittee:

"Our MEC has not entered into any agreement with CMR. This came from the CMR MEC as a result of their own initiative."

Nice try, guys.

 

[FlyingSig]

And therein SDD, lies your falsehoods....

 

[InclusiveScope]

From the DALPA Communications Comittee:

"Our MEC has not entered into any agreement with CMR. This came from the CMR MEC as a result of their own initiative."

Nice try, guys.

DALPA Communications Committee = Pravda!

 

[InclusiveScope]

First, what Legal obligations are you referring to?

Second, the Delta Pilots haven't done anything for you? Weren't you around when Delta was hiring? Delta was giving preferential interviews to ASA and Comair. In my class of 20 there were 11 Military and 9 Civilians. Out of those 9 Civilians two were Comair and two were ASA. That is 40% of the Civilian population.

Preferential interviews for ASA and CMR? Sounds like the preferential interviews are with the Air Force and Navy. 4 of the 20 already worked for the corporation, while 11 never even flew for the airlines. DALPA's version of preferential interviews consists of sweaping the officer's club first.... This isn't a union, it is just a continuation of the officer's club.

 

[blueridge71]

This is what we plan on doing for you, we plan on not letting another Comair pilot get hired at Delta. This gesture didn't change anything. You think one single Delta pilot is going to accept a job at Comair when Delta is recalling 30-50 a month.

.

Ahh. Another shining example of Delta pilot's idea of union solidarity. This is the same solidarity that will probably lead to my furlough because DALPA refused the ACA MEC's request for temporary relief from their scope clause to provide an orderly transition from ACA-Delta to Independence Air.

I can tell you stories about DAL crews "holier than thou" mentality at the hotel van as well.

Frankly, I think that you guys screwed Comair and ASA. ALPA bylaws call for integration of seniority lists when ALPA carriers merge or are acquired.

You hand them the shaft and then expect them to say "thank you sir may I have another" when the time comes for pay cuts and flow back.

You guys are lucky to get anything from either of them. Have you ever heard of give and take? You don't get very far with take and take.

 

[surplus1]

The DAL MEC did not negotiate this. Comair management is under no obligation to listen to the Comair MEC request.

Fingers crossed.

The very real threat of Chapter 11 and a judge telling Comair to move over because he's sticking Delta pilots in your seat as he tears apart both contracts.

In the event of bankruptcy a judge may very well tear apart both contracts. But, you and I both know that he will not be putting Delta pilots into our seats.

Your frustrations re the overall scenario are understood but your remark in that regard is no more "factual" than the alleged mistatements of which you accuse SDD.

>>>helping a DAL furloughee is simply an unlucky byproduct of the Comair MEC's"big picture".

For what it's worth the "big picture" of the Comair MEC's resolutions are no less a mystery to Comair pilots than they are to Delta pilots. Why an MEC would endorse the negotiating strategy of another MEC when that strategy is unknown to them escapes all thinking Comair pilots. Better the Trojan Horse remain in Troy.

 

[737 Pylt]

somewhere a village is missing their idiot

Frankly, I think that you guys screwed Comair and ASA. ALPA bylaws call for integration of seniority lists when ALPA carriers merge or are acquired.

Please put down the crack pipe, and immeadiately send yourself for mental evaluation!
Sheeeeeezzz!
737

 

[737 Pylt]

DALPA Communications Committee = Pravda!

rjdc communications= lies/twisted facts!
I especially like the part where Dan Ford gives an industry update!
Now that's something to laugh your a$$ off about!
737

 

[FlyingSig]

Ahh. Another shining example of Delta pilot's idea of union solidarity. This is the same solidarity that will probably lead to my furlough because DALPA refused the ACA MEC's request for temporary relief from their scope clause to provide an orderly transition from ACA-Delta to Independence Air.

I can tell you stories about DAL crews "holier than thou" mentality at the hotel van as well.

Same could be said about my furlough when ACA did benifit from the increased block hours after the DAL MEC did indeed give scope releif after 9/11. Covineient how your memory lapses when your growth comes on the back of a company claiming force majeur and at the cost of my job.

Cry me a river....

And if you're going to try and appear better then all those arrogant Delta pilots, at least try to quote them right. Inserting my name into someone else's quote and making it look like I said it only shows your true credibility.

 

[FlyingSig]

Fingers crossed.


In the event of bankruptcy a judge may very well tear apart both contracts. But, you and I both know that he will not be putting Delta pilots into our seats.

Your frustrations re the overall scenario are understood but your remark in that regard is no more "factual" than the alleged mistatements of which you accuse SDD.


For what it's worth the "big picture" of the Comair MEC's resolutions are no less a mystery to Comair pilots than they are to Delta pilots. Why an MEC would endorse the negotiating strategy of another MEC when that strategy is unknown to them escapes all thinking Comair pilots. Better the Trojan Horse remain in Troy.

Point taken and while that's not quite what I meant (more along the lines of all those new self financing RJ's would go to DAL ala Mid Atlantic) I agree that a judge would not put DAL pilots on the CMR list.

My main point with SDD was that the DAL MEC had nothing to do with this announcment....

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Darned if I don't want to be a Delta pilot someday, but it reeks of arrogance around here...

 

[Otto]

Darned if I don't want to be a Delta pilot someday, but it reeks of arrogance around here...

Yeah, I know what you mean. I used to want to be one but apparently as a Comair pilot, I'll be black-balled when Delta starts hiring again in the year 2020.

 

[kc81900]

So? They had to ask... Instead of making a good-faith gesture right off the bat after 9/11, you waited until the Delta MEC asked for your help. Now you wonder why the whole one-list deal seems so much more far fetched? By Waiting for the better part of 1.5 years, you created the start of some serious animosity.


No one had a crystal ball and saw what the morning of 9/11 had in store... Mabye if the Delta MEC had magic powers they would have agreed to a one-list scenario. But things were much rosier back then. They didn't see and impending furlough of 1000+ and the cease of growth. Hindsight is 20/20, I just think this gesture towards DAL is too little too late....IMHO

I agree the hiring of furloughs should have occured the very day Delta announced furloughs. What I do not agree with is the animosity grew out of this. The animosity started long before this and is supported by Delta management, ALPA national and both MEC's. Once we all realize we equally need each other then I think things can be accomplished for both sides. Instead the mudslinging and finger pointing will continue and our careers will be further diminished. Thanks to both sides. Divided and conquered!

 

[surplus1]

I agree the hiring of furloughs should have occured the very day Delta announced furloughs.

Can you tell me why (and I'm not being facetious)?

 

[kc81900]

Can you tell me why (and I'm not being facetious)?

sure for the same reason you send blankets and medical supplies in after a disaster. BECAUSE IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!!!

 

[FlyComAirJets]

I think a better question to ask is why the Delta MEC Chairman took over a year to find his way to the ASA and Comair MECs to seek employment opportunities for furloughed pilots and then only because he was directed by local petition (I believe it was the now-disbanded Orlando domicile)? What's up with that?

 

[surplus1]

sure for the same reason you send blankets and medical supplies in after a disaster. BECAUSE IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!!!

Well, I suppose we could say that's "noble" or whatever else you would like to call it. If I'm not mistaken, when the furloughs began the CMR MEC asked the Company to hire ALL furloughed pilots in preference to those not furloughed. That's the proper way to "send blankets" when there's trouble. You don't single out one group that is "more worthy" of blankets than the other.

Now I have some more questions.

1. Why should the CMR MEC demand that Comair hire furloughed Delta pilots in preference to furloughed pilots from other airlines?

2. If Comair pilots were furloughed, do your really believe that the Delta MEC would go out of its way to demand that Delta hire furloughed CMR pilots in preference to anyone else or even without any preference at all?

If you do believe that, I have an ocean-front lot in Arizona that I'll sell you real cheap.

Sorry, but your logic is just like the Delta pilots logic. They have decided that they should be first in line above others and you agree with them. I can't agree with either one of you. A furloughed USAir pilot with 15 years seniority is a lot more in need of a "blanket" than a furloughed Delta pilot with 18 monts seniority, and there are a lot more of the former. If you're going to pick and choose who you send blankets to, then send them where they are most needed.

I think your "because it's the right thing to do" is obviously prejudice in favor of a particular group, and that translates not to generosity but to political opportunism.

The CMR MEC was right the first time and it is wrong this time. This latest manuever is purely political and a bad move. It shows weakness of judgement, not strength. There has been no change in events that justifies this reversal. If we as a group are going to ask our Company to change its hiring policies, the change should apply to ALL furloughed pilots with no preference for anyone.

Cheap politics is the cause of our problems with Delta pilots. More of it will not solve them.