Comair furloughs 210

[Goose Egg]

...anyone on this board who says they didn't/wouldn't take the first offer they got after flight instructing is full of $hit. If you really did hold out for your "really great" regional airline your an idiot..

As I recall, I didn't take the first job offer I received from a regional. What airline, you ask? It was Comair. At the time, I questioned my own judgement, but with hindsight, I think I made the right call, especially considering that my Comair interview didn't even occur until May 2007. I don't believe in a "really great" regionals either, however, I do believe in a "really great" situation, which is what I held out for. If you still think I'm an idiot, well, you are entitled to your opinion.

Like I said, I have to agree about there not being any such thing as a "really great" regionals. There are good and bad, but none that are "really great." But, you've got to start somewhere.

-Goose

 

[staylow]

As I recall, I didn't take the first job offer I received from a regional. What airline, you ask? It was Comair. At the time, I questioned my own judgement, but with hindsight, I think I made the right call, especially considering that my Comair interview didn't even occur until May 2007. I don't believe in a "really great" regionals either, however, I do believe in a "really great" situation, which is what I held out for. If you still think I'm an idiot, well, you are entitled to your opinion.

Like I said, I have to agree about there not being any such thing as a "really great" regionals. There are good and bad, but none that are "really great." But, you've got to start somewhere.

-Goose

Goose Egg...you missed the point completely...here, let me draw it for you in the sand. The point of my thread was, one regional is no better than any other regional. Yea...some will argue they make more money or they get to fly the guppie killer or some other horse $hit. The fact remains the same...no one has a "great regional" job. And I am pretty sure that when the opprotunity comes, 99% of the pilots will move on. So, if you think that you do, stop reading this now. But if you don't, here is the rest of the thread...I've grown tired of watching one regional guy snub another regional guy because he works for some other "crappy regional." ONE REGIONAL IS NO BETTER THAN ANY OTHER!!! The reason mainline can whipsaw every DCI carrier so easily is because there is no unity amoung each DCI carriers...instead we make it simple for management to jack us around, because everyone thinks they are so much better than the other. Which in my opinion...if I was making $80K as a FO...had 15 days off every month...and a QOL...my regional then would be the best. But I am not. Infact 206 pilots are getting launched over October and November...my regional is like the rest...we suck. I hope this helped. Now I need another six beers...damn.

 

[Broke in CVG]

ONE REGIONAL IS NO BETTER THAN ANY OTHER!!! T

Except Mesa. They are all better than Mesa because.... MESA SUCKS!

 

[acarpe3448]

Just saw on our XJT forum somebody post that Comair announced 210 furloughs today, apparently back to April 07 hires. Can anyone else back that up?

HEY!!!! Thats Great News. I hear that Delta is parking another 100 50 seaters also! Now start that applications and read up on how to file for unemployment!

 

[Goose Egg]

Well, if that was your point, you probably shouldn't have started with "you're full of [expletive deleted] if you didn't take the first regional job that came along." I didn't, and I made the right call.

And I suppose I partially agree with you--I wouldn't say a regional job is "great" compared to what else is available out there for flying jobs, or at least could be available in better times. Where I take issue with you is that I think that some regionals are better than others. Some situations are better than others. So according to the working conditions I could be experiencing in my regional work life, I have a great situation. I work for a great regional airline... for me.

I also take issue with your assertion that 99% of regional pilots would move on if they had the chance. In reality, for many people, that just wouldn't make sense. You should know this.

About people snubbing others because of the company they work for; It's not something that I personally make a practice of (as if I had anything to be prideful about in the first place!) , but people will be jerks, and you just can't control that. People will snub you, but you can't let it affect you. It's more of a commentary on the type of person that they are vs. a reflection of your status in the industry, and that's how you should look at it. So some CRJ FO thinks that they are now too good to make eye contact with me in the terminal. So what? Do I let it ruin my day? No way. Dude, you just need to chill.

I...if I was making $80K as a FO...had 15 days off every month...and a QOL...my regional then would be the best.

Yeah, and if I won the lottery I'd pay off all my student loans and then buy a 500,000 square foot house with a kidney-shaped pool and a tennis court and have a few cars and a boat and some dancing girls and.... a butler. Yeah, a butler. It'd be wierd at first but I think I could get used to it. And then Jeeves, Amber, and I could snub people as we drove around. I'd never have any problems again.

My point is that people perceive regionals as being "crappy" because they expect that by being a regional pilot they should be making $80k for being an FO, and it will never happen. I expect that I have years of dues paying ahead of me and hope to move on, yet understand that I work for a very well-run and solid company. I have a "great" situation with a "good" regional.

If you say "all regionals are crappy," it leads me to believe that you just aren't seeing the situation objectively. But I'll try not to snub you anyway.

-Goose

 

[bvt1151]

There once was a Pilot group who said Enough! They put their careers on the line and walked out for 89 days. They said "we would rather risk every thing than continue with the status quoe. They fought a good fight and won a contract that put them at the top of the Regional Industry. Did they get every thing they wanted? No. But they were satisfied they had done there part. The other Regional Pilot groups would now pick up the torch and continue the fight.
Boy, were they wrong.Republic pilots were in a 30 day cooling off period. They had a decision to make. Under cut the Comair pilot group or demand what Comair Pilots got plus a little.
That is called pattern bargaining. A common practice that dates back decades.
They chose the path of cowards. They were told if they under cut the Comair Pilots, they would get a bunch of Shiny New Jets. Quick upgrades. They bought into it. They could not resist. The Mesa Pilots had already bowed to ornstein. They watched as jo played them like a fiddle. They saw all this play out and they STLL bowed to the same tactics jo had used to beat his pilots into submission.
It was sad to watch. All it did was give them an excuse to stab the Comair Pilots in the back.
Now today, Comair is sending 206 pilots packing.
All hopes of bargain pattern bargaining is gone because of the actions of a couple of short sited pilot groups.
So if you guys and gals ever wonder why a Comair Pilot looks the other way when you pass him or her in the terminals, just think about the 206 fine pilots who no longer have jobs due in large part to your short sited actions at a time when you could of stood tall and joined the Comair Pilots in saying "Enough!"

BRAVO!!!! Well Said. Nobody ever thought they'd actually see the consequences of their quick upgrades, but Comair was the ONLY airline to stand strong. They paid dearly for it. Not from management, but from their own fellow pilots.

 

[bob_sakamano]

HEY!!!! Thats Great News. I hear that Delta is parking another 100 50 seaters also! Now start that applications and read up on how to file for unemployment!

Shameful comment.

There but for the Grace of God, go you.

 

[dowhite2]

BRAVO!!!! Well Said. Nobody ever thought they'd actually see the consequences of their quick upgrades, but Comair was the ONLY airline to stand strong. They paid dearly for it. Not from management, but from their own fellow pilots.

You all might wan't to think about thanking those bottom sucking regionals that paid into your strike fund...... I believe you'll find Mesa along with many others who supported you financially in your strike. Then again you probably weren't around for that!

 

[staylow]

Goose Egg...Good luck, I hope it works out for you.

 

[mokitty]

There once was a Pilot group who said Enough! They put their careers on the line and walked out for 89 days. They said "we would rather risk every thing than continue with the status quoe. They fought a good fight and won a contract that put them at the top of the Regional Industry. Did they get every thing they wanted? No. But they were satisfied they had done there part. The other Regional Pilot groups would now pick up the torch and continue the fight.
Boy, were they wrong.Republic pilots were in a 30 day cooling off period. They had a decision to make. Under cut the Comair pilot group or demand what Comair Pilots got plus a little.
That is called pattern bargaining. A common practice that dates back decades.
They chose the path of cowards. They were told if they under cut the Comair Pilots, they would get a bunch of Shiny New Jets. Quick upgrades. They bought into it. They could not resist. The Mesa Pilots had already bowed to ornstein. They watched as jo played them like a fiddle. They saw all this play out and they STLL bowed to the same tactics jo had used to beat his pilots into submission.
It was sad to watch. All it did was give them an excuse to stab the Comair Pilots in the back.
Now today, Comair is sending 206 pilots packing.
All hopes of bargain pattern bargaining is gone because of the actions of a couple of short sited pilot groups.
So if you guys and gals ever wonder why a Comair Pilot looks the other way when you pass him or her in the terminals, just think about the 206 fine pilots who no longer have jobs due in large part to your short sited actions at a time when you could of stood tall and joined the Comair Pilots in saying "Enough!"

You may want to check your facts before posting. Republic (CHQ) was not in a 30 day cooling off period (negotiations never got that far after CHQ's strike authorization vote). Guaranteed growth was not in the contract, specifically, "if they undercut Comair Pilots, they would get a bunch of Shiny New Jets. Quick upgrades." CHQ was dealing with its own internal whipsawing efforts and trying to protect flying that was about to be outsourced to an alter-ego startup by BB and WH.

Pattern bargaining is great when it works for the employees. UA, DAL, US Air all prior to 9/11 did great. Contracts were huge and life was good. Pattern bargaining after 9/11 was devestaing for those same employees as bankrupcy stripped all those great "pattern bargained" contracts.

Yes, Comair walked for 89 days and got a good contract....... prior to 9/11. They also IMHO caused DAL to ensure they could never cause hub disruption again by inviting other regionals into the DCI fold. All the dribble about other airlines not following Comair's lead is moot after airline landscapes changed post 9/11. Do you really think others would be able to negotiate Comair + in the midst of bankruptcies, furloughs, and slashed contracts?

CHQ did not stab Comair in the back in 2003. And in case you were not aware, Comair is not the only airline furloughing... XJT and CHQ are both furloughing and displacing CAs to FO. It is always easy to blame others for your misfortune, but don't twist the facts.

Good luck to all the furloughees.

 

[down2mins]

HEY!!!! Thats Great News. I hear that Delta is parking another 100 50 seaters also! Now start that applications and read up on how to file for unemployment!

Sir, it is because of people like you that I stopped reading this forum years ago. It is out of sheer boredom I stumbled across your hateful statements. I rarely posted, but was so perturbed by your lack of class, tact, and general disrespect for fellow pilots that I felt the need to comment. Now, I do not know your history because I have better things to do besides spend hours stalking boards that people such as yourself, make childish and unprofessional. However, I find it quite astounding that you have yet to be banned. To make off-color statements regarding 5191 and to cheer at the fact that hundreds of pilots have lost their jobs, is nothing but a testamant to your lack of simple humanity. I am amazed that someone of your attitude has made it to a major airline, and am upset at the fact that thousands of passengers a month unknowingly put their safety into the hands of someone with obvious mental issues. I may have been one of the unlucky furloughed - but keep in mind, however you were burned by Comair in the past...myself and 205 others had nothing to do with what happenned to you back in '01 or earlier. Two years ago or less, we all chose the job for a reason, because it fit our situation. And while we do not necessarily always agree with the union...management...even the actions of our fellow pilots....we commit to ourselves and our familes to show up, be a professional, and do our jobs safely. The immature politics of people such as yourself is what creates friction amongst groups. While I don't consider myself a big "team player" or want much at all to do with the "brotherhood" of the union, I am decent enough to respect other pilots in their decisions and fail to see the point of your repeated wishing for bad things to reign down on jobless pilots such as myself. I'm not bitter, I'm not mad, life will go on, and I will continue to pride myself on the fact that I understand the more important things in life....and that walking by someone when they're down is at least better than kicking them.

 

[hobbsmeter]

Well said my friend, well said.

 

[laserman2431]

HEY!!!! Thats Great News. I hear that Delta is parking another 100 50 seaters also! Now start that applications and read up on how to file for unemployment!

Queefcarpe says "wincheck ... WINDCHECK"

 

[NEWSOUTH]

Sir, it is because of people like you that I stopped reading this forum years ago. It is out of sheer boredom I stumbled across your hateful statements. I rarely posted, but was so perturbed by your lack of class, tact, and general disrespect for fellow pilots that I felt the need to comment. Now, I do not know your history because I have better things to do besides spend hours stalking boards that people such as yourself, make childish and unprofessional. However, I find it quite astounding that you have yet to be banned. To make off-color statements regarding 5191 and to cheer at the fact that hundreds of pilots have lost their jobs, is nothing but a testamant to your lack of simple humanity. I am amazed that someone of your attitude has made it to a major airline, and am upset at the fact that thousands of passengers a month unknowingly put their safety into the hands of someone with obvious mental issues. I may have been one of the unlucky furloughed - but keep in mind, however you were burned by Comair in the past...myself and 205 others had nothing to do with what happenned to you back in '01 or earlier. Two years ago or less, we all chose the job for a reason, because it fit our situation. And while we do not necessarily always agree with the union...management...even the actions of our fellow pilots....we commit to ourselves and our familes to show up, be a professional, and do our jobs safely. The immature politics of people such as yourself is what creates friction amongst groups. While I don't consider myself a big "team player" or want much at all to do with the "brotherhood" of the union, I am decent enough to respect other pilots in their decisions and fail to see the point of your repeated wishing for bad things to reign down on jobless pilots such as myself. I'm not bitter, I'm not mad, life will go on, and I will continue to pride myself on the fact that I understand the more important things in life....and that walking by someone when they're down is at least better than kicking them.

Wow!! Wow again!! Great post!!!

 

[Tar Heel]

The Mesa Pilots had already bowed to ornstein. They watched as jo played them like a fiddle. They saw all this play out and they STLL bowed to the same tactics jo had used to beat his pilots into submission.
It was sad to watch. All it did was give them an excuse to stab the Comair Pilots in the back.

Wow talk about ignorance. Ever stop and think that while the current TA for MAG is poor that they are fighting hard this go round and many are going to vote no? The pilots are fighting for what's right and aren't just going to settle for a pathetic PBS offer that watery at best. Perhaps you forgot that the pilots won in the long run to prevent JO from using Freedom as a whipsaw and gaining one seniority list...which is something that those at another regional weren't able to do. It's very unfortunate. But people seem to forget that.

 

[NEWSOUTH]

Does any regional have any bragging rights as this stage in the game? Please!!! They all suck!! Sorry, but I could and won't make a case for all regionals suck. Everybody get off the high-horse and blame NALPA. Before they take me hostage too!!!

 

[NEWSOUTH]

Does any regional have any bragging rights as this stage in the game? Please!!! They all suck!! Sorry, but I could and won't make a case for all regionals suck. Everybody get off the high-horse and blame NALPA. Before they take me hostage too!!!

It is Mainline against Mainline. Regional against Regional. Mainline against Regional. Regional against Mainline. That is not a Union. ALPA is against a Union. What are they doing?

 

[8HourPilot]

I hope (for your sake) that the merger of mergers does not change your job status. It most likely won't given your apparent wealth of experience that you have listed. If the merger does happen to get to you, I will at that point out a few facts about karma....and direct you to the nearest unemployment office.....from the sounds of it though, you already know the way.

HEY!!!! Thats Great News. I hear that Delta is parking another 100 50 seaters also! Now start that applications and read up on how to file for unemployment!

 

[rumorhasit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwyrGwM4a7M&feature=related

 

[DX Rick]

There once was a Pilot group who said Enough!

Too bad that same Union has no spine today. All the focus on is DS and Emaestro.
They ask at the end of each VARS "How many times has your contract been voilated today?"...but they should answer their own question with "It doesn't matter because we won't defend the contract".
I know I know, people will come on and tell me to get involved. Get involved with what? Going to Vegas? Or making up an imaginary assesment fee, after DAL has said there will be no merger at the regional level...yet we're still getting bills for the fee. But wait, we'll get the money back if there is no merger. But not all the money, just what ever is left over from the lawyers.
Our Union is a joke and I think our pilot group has spoken....44% is in bad standing.