Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Comair Crash

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
Status
Not open for further replies.
328dude said:
They might have had numbers for that runway, but the configuration was wrong.
Click to expand...

I have no idea how CMR gets their takeoff perf data but I can tell you that there is no CRJ-200 that will takeoff from a 3500' runway with 50 people on it. IIRC, we didn't have numbers for the short runway in LEX for the DoJet and that airplane doesn't need nearly as much runway as the CRJ does. That said, this really could have happened to any of us.
 
Last edited:
GravityHater said:
Look at the taxiway diagram
Esp if both rwys had lights on, there was ample opportunity for error.
http://download.aopa.org/ustprocs/20060803/airport_diagrams/00697AD.PDF
Click to expand...

Out of all the airports I've flown out of LEX would be the easiest one to make this mistake at. My wife (ex-DoJet FO) had a new CA start to line up on the short runway once, so I know it happens. I'm sure it has happened quite a bit actually, fortunately the crews caught their mistake before it was too late.
 
La Crosse is bad as well. Early in the morning on a CDO, its easy to line up with rwy 3 (i think) vs 36
 
All right. This is pathetic. As of 12:37 pm EDT, the female "reporter" on MSNBC stated that "their producer just tried calling the 1-800 number set up by Delta and was on hold for 15 minutes." Then she turned to ask a clinical psychologist how this 15 minute period must feel to those relatives and friends who were calling the hotline.

You know, XM radio just announced that they were dropping MSNBC due to scheduling conflicts. Another source stated that is was due to very very poor ratings. I guess this one serves them right!
 
A Time and Place

First of all, may God bless all involved with His mercy and grace...a horrible day for our Comair brothers

Second, some of you really trouble me. I don't really know how else to say it. I have scared myself stupid in a cockpit, in both seats, in a few different planes - one of them an RJ. Do you think the crew woke up and decided to break their families hearts and said 'let's see if we can't kill ourselves today?' I am truly amazed, and a few other words, by the lack of judgment and insensitivity of some of the posts here.

Could be me, but if you don't have a "there but for the grace of God go I" attitude, or - not to offend - a sense of humility about your craft, I don't think I want you flying my family around. Humility doesn't condone making critical mistakes at the most inopportune times, but it does lend one a 'holy crap - I could have easily done that given those circumstances' attitude. There is a time and a place to study and learn from those that have come before us, but there is also a time to STFU and thank God that there but by His grace...
 
CX880 said:
You know what RIP to the deceased but no matter what they say, this was pilot error, even if ATC or other factors were involved they should have never taken off that runway. If this is indeed what it looks like, it might be one of the stupidest pilot error accidents in U.S aviation history. And if the pilot jumpseater, who must know the airport, was in the cockpit it adds to it. But still this accident is so incomprehensable that there must be more to it than just mistaken runways.
Click to expand...

CX880,

Sir you are an A$$!

If the only airplane you have flown is a 172 GO PASCK SAND!

Hey Modiraitors, grow some balls.

49 people died today.

They've been dead for 16hrs and 25min.

How about you take the BS off the forum that has anything to do with stupid comments like, Pilot error, Stupid mistake, Wrong runway or anything like that.

If you have less than 3000 hrs Shut Up

If you don't fly 121 or 135 Shut Up

If your aircraft weighs less than 25000lbs Shut Up.

God help some of you folks the day you make your mistake!

My Thoughts and prayers to everyone involved with this tragedy.

701EV
 
Last edited:
here is a nasa study on pilot fatigue and circadian rhythms

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/legaff/mann8-3.html

the article is really good, but the 3rd paragraph tells the story we all need to hear. I'm not saying this came into play, but we have all found ourselves on the back side of the clock, droning out in the cockpit. Again, I'm not speculating one bit here.

On another note, say a prayer, chant, sing, moment of silence, drink, or whatever it is you do for the FO tonight. I spent 14 months in Iraq before I came to my present flying job, and was a patrol leader one day when my team got hit. 2 killed, and 1 critical. I held the mans hand waiting on the medivac thinking he would never make it with a huge hole in his chest, abdomen and head. Six months later i was eating chinese food with him at ft bragg. I'm praying tonight for the FO, his family, and the families of all involved. Keep hope alive
 
I was driving to the airport this morning when I heard this. My condolences to the families of all who were on this airplane. What a tradegy.

I think we will all remember these people every time we taxi to a runway. I know I will.

And yes, we should all be thinking along the lines of "there, but for the grace of God, go I" because it could conceivably happen to any of us. Hopefully it'll open our eyes a bit and cause all of us to be just that much more vigilant.

This is so darn sad...
 
Last edited:
I myself today was given a huge wake up call and reality check. We have just gone through the safest period in Us Aviation history. We have not had a crash since 2001, and since that day a lot of new pilots (including myself) have been hired. All of those of us that have been hired since 2001 have heard nothing but terms like bankruptcy, furlough, rfp, contract negotiations, 70 and 90 seaters and things of that nature. We have never heard terms like "crash, fatalities, and possible pilot error". Unfortunately sometimes a bad thing has to happen before you realize that you need to step back and refocus on what is important, Safety. My thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends of the crash victims, and to the f/o, as he moves forward in his recovery
 
701 EV....though not a pilot due to medical issues, I agree with you entirely.

The line from high flight I think fits "...For I have slipped the surly bonds of earth and touched the face of god"

Godspeed to the crew, passengers and families. To all of you at Comair, Delta and Delta Connection, my heartfelt sympathy.
 
I think gojo and black hawk were on to something. Joe Public demands flawless air travel yet thinks it's OK for 4 year FO's to make barely $30K. http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/comair.html WTF? For the same pay, a job at Home Depot would at least have a decent schedule. Does the FAA not understand what kind of stress it is to have a complete sh!t schedule, make less than $30K for several years, watch over your shoulder for furloughs, and juggle a family?!? That adds to stress in a marriage which drags everything full circle. This HAS to f@#$ with performance, so why then are airlines allowed to get away with it? Mesa et al can no longer be allowed to continue setting the standard. The responsibility we all share is stress enough. We don't need to be stripped of our self respect.
Say a prayer for everyone involved.
 
Last edited:
Detroitpilot22 said:
I myself today was given a huge wake up call and reality check. We have just gone through the safest period in Us Aviation history. We have not had a crash since 2001,
Click to expand...

We've had one. The Air Midwest flight that went down in CLT. I knew the Captain and miss her.
 
701EV...

Read your PM's. I have had a tough time getting on today with the slow down. Sorry if I sounded pissed in the PM but we are doing our best. With the amount of traffic on here today its been hard to edit much at all. Please understand. FN FAL has been a thorn in my side today along with a few others and for you to tell us to grow some balls was out of line I thought. I would hope that others think we are doing a good job but we are not perfect. Like I said, we are doing our best.
 
701EV said:
CX880,

Hey Modiraitors, grow some balls.

49 people died today.

They've been dead for 16hrs and 25min.
Click to expand...

There were more than that,
 
Last edited:
20/20 Hindsight aside, we should all take something from this accident. We should honor this crew by thinking of them everytime we taxi to takeoff. Standard Operating procedures do mitigate accidents, use them! Whether you are taxiing for takeoff or lining up for final, do a thorough brief each and every day, not just "standard".

This could happen to any one of us as could any number of previous accidents unless we learn from them and vow never to let the same thing happen to us. How many have seen the fateful Everglades crash and said, "no matter what, someone will always be flying the airplane." Do the same here. Check and recheck your heading and airport diagram to ensure you are where you think you are. Check your performance numbers. Ensure checklists are complete. If fatigue is a factor, make sure you do all that TWICE.

Sure, RAS might have prevented this tragedy, but we all know we don't fly the most modern aircraft. YOU are the last line of defense!

FLY SAFE!
 
From one company to another:

The news of the Comair accident hits very close to home for all of us at SkyWest. Our deepest sympathy and heartfelt compassion goes out to the families, crew and passengers as well as the entire Comair family. We are offering all SkyWest resources to assist Comair and Delta and appreciate the support of all of you. While the cause of this tragedy may take weeks or months to discover we must discipline ourselves not to speculate or comment on how this could have happened. Our airline, and our industry is the safest method of travel on the planet. This accident is a sobering reminder that we must be constantly vigilant and safety will not be compromised. Look out for one another and fly safe.
Click to expand...

Godspeed...
 
B1900FO said:
I feel horrible for everyone involved in this accident, including the crew members. For some unknown reason they took off on the wrong runway. What could have possibly distracted them?

There was also a jumpseater onboard. Was he in the cockpit? If so, did he notice the wrong runway?

Lastly, what do you do when you notice the end of the runway is coming up? Do you throw everything out and ride it off the end or do you try to make it fly?

Too many questions which have no answers and will take sometime to get.

Guys, we're all human. The Captain of the KLM 747 that slammed into the PanAm 747 in Tenerife was supposed to be the best pilot KLM had. If it can, it will happen!

Life's too short!

Forever tailwinds and blue skies for all!
Click to expand...

This is not second guessing and I am not implying that anyone should have done anything differently. I'm just throwing out an idea for everyone's bag of tricks in response to the above question.

I had a sim instructor in the DC-9 who used to do this little scenario every year: Barreling down the runway, below V1 and an unlit aircraft appears on the runway in front of you. Stopping is not an option. Swerving is not a good option. More flaps (like landing flaps) and the jet levitates over the traffic (well below V1). Granted, you're screwed in an engine failure, but that's the least of your worries at that point.

Just something to try when you are out of options. Worked in the sim.

Anyway, godspeed to the victims.

PIPE
 
Bryan D....

what do you mean?
 
NO criminal prosecution people

FN FAL and some others were bantering about "reckless homicide", "negligent homicide", etc.

First of all, lets establish this happened in Kentucky.

RE

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/501-00/030.PDF

BOTH elements of 501.030 must be met to be prosecuted with a criminal offense. Observe the comment about "recklessly"

RE

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/507-00/CHAPTER.HTM

507.050 (1) requires "recklessness" as an element. This is the only negligent/reckless homicide statute in Kentucky.

Lets look at the definition of recklessness, accepted in legal circles.

RE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recklessness_(criminal)


http://dictionary.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/results.pl?co=dictionary.lp.findlaw.com&topic=32/322bea1fd48a116e9018e7e2c040dbc6


http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/reckless

: characterized by the creation of a substantial and unjustifiable risk to the lives, safety, or rights of others and by a conscious and sometimes wanton and willful disregard for or indifference to that risk that is a gross deviation from the standard of care a reasonable person would exercise in like circumstances
Click to expand...

Long story short, an accident is what it is, an accident. Pilots going thru checklists, doing preflights, checking weather, and a human factors element then causes a mistake which leads to an accident, is called an accident and in this case tragedy.

FN FAL, you are wrong brother, sorry. Go back to law school or turn Nancy Grace off. Nancy concluded she does a better job being a TV personality then being a lawyer by profession. No, CNN ain't paying her more than what some high-powered lawyers are earning. Time to turn her off.

Hope this puts an end to this silly discussion. We are talking 50 (or 49?) people now deceased.
 
Last edited:
arthompson said:
We've had one. The Air Midwest flight that went down in CLT. I knew the Captain and miss her.
Click to expand...

please accept my appology on that one, I am sorry i did not know about that one
 
I am saddened to hear of such a tragedy. We will always remember and have them in our prayers. Gods speed.
 
fatdumbandhappy said:
this could have been anyone of use
Click to expand...

No it couldn't and it shouldn't. What happened today was easily preventable. It's Private Pilot 101.

I do feel sorry for the FO though. He'll have to live knowing that his carelessness help lead to the death of 49 people.
 
Last edited:
mesaba2425 said:
No it couldn't and it shouldn't. What happened today was easily preventable. It's Private Pilot 101.

I do feel sorry for the FO though. He'll have to live knowing that his carelessness help lead to the death of 49 people.
Click to expand...


Are you kidding me?
 
Mesaba...show some respect for gods sake. 99% of you guys are really classy guys. Please do not stir the pot.
 
mesaba2425 said:
No it couldn't and it shouldn't. What happened today was easily preventable. It's Private Pilot 101.

I do feel sorry for the FO though. He'll have to live knowing that his carelessness help lead to the death of 49 people.
Click to expand...

It's a good thing you edited your original post, what's the hazardous attitude it falls under? Invulnerability?
 
TOOL CRIB said:
It's possible, but Comair's president said the crew had "more than adequate" or "well in excess" of the required rest that they needed in his first public address. I forget which term he used.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, to most, if not all airlines, that means 8 hrs, 1 min of rest. Not saying that occurred here.

God bless those lost and those affected.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom