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Colgan
- Thread starter DHPFLYN
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DHPFLYN
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2003
- Posts
- 361
Chperplt
Not that I care much either way about what Colgan does about hiring. It seems to me after reading posts that you do. You have already left Colgan. Am I right?? If you hate that company so bad and are so happy to be gone then why do you care what they do?? You are gone get over it !!! IT seems if someone hates a company so much they would leave and never look back but for some reason it sounds like all you want to do is go back and cry about things that happened whrn you USED to work there. I dont know what company you are flying for but I sure hope you arent in my cockpit just what I want a cry baby F/O complaining about his old job the whole trip !! My advice is just move on !!
Just my thought
Not that I care much either way about what Colgan does about hiring. It seems to me after reading posts that you do. You have already left Colgan. Am I right?? If you hate that company so bad and are so happy to be gone then why do you care what they do?? You are gone get over it !!! IT seems if someone hates a company so much they would leave and never look back but for some reason it sounds like all you want to do is go back and cry about things that happened whrn you USED to work there. I dont know what company you are flying for but I sure hope you arent in my cockpit just what I want a cry baby F/O complaining about his old job the whole trip !! My advice is just move on !!
Just my thought
chperplt
Registered User
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,123
DHPFLYN
I think you need to go back to school and learn some reading comprehension.
My comments are in regard to the process of PFTing, and the dangers of low time pilots in the cockpit of an airliner. IF someone has a question I can answer, I'll answer it. Doesn't matter if it's the answer that person wants to hear or not.
This has nothing to do with complaining about company A or company B.
Just MY thoughts
I think you need to go back to school and learn some reading comprehension.
My comments are in regard to the process of PFTing, and the dangers of low time pilots in the cockpit of an airliner. IF someone has a question I can answer, I'll answer it. Doesn't matter if it's the answer that person wants to hear or not.
This has nothing to do with complaining about company A or company B.
Just MY thoughts
deadstick
Pucker Factor: HIGH
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2002
- Posts
- 706
Flyairjason
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2003
- Posts
- 96
'Spect Ya'll!!!
Alright everyone simma down now...
Fellas, slow down and listen to what Chpr is saying. I have flown with this guy (Chpr), and he is top notch. He isn't "pissed" or "bitter", he is doing what we all do- looking out for his bros.
I haven't heard one member actually stand up for PFT, and in fact, I think we all pretty much agree that PFTers are six feet lower than whale scat. They completely undermine every starving, broke-a$$ day you've ever had in your career while you were doing what it took to make your dream become reality. And, you know what? I don't think that there's one guy or gal out there that doesn't feel proud about their level of success after they've worked their arses off for it. In fact, that's what we call that word... PRIDE.
Then along comes Mr. PFTer... Not only is he a liability in the cockpit with his level of INexperience, he also ensures that you and your hard work are never recognized or respected. Hey, if anyone can tell me about the good side of PFT, well then I'm all ears. So far, I've never heard anyone defend it except the folks who are taking the money for it.
DHPFLYN, dude, relax. You'd fly next to Chpr and think he was freak'n hilarious and a bada$$ pilot. That's the problem with Colgan... They have so much talent, and they shat all over them.
Regards fellas,
Jason
Alright everyone simma down now...
Fellas, slow down and listen to what Chpr is saying. I have flown with this guy (Chpr), and he is top notch. He isn't "pissed" or "bitter", he is doing what we all do- looking out for his bros.
I haven't heard one member actually stand up for PFT, and in fact, I think we all pretty much agree that PFTers are six feet lower than whale scat. They completely undermine every starving, broke-a$$ day you've ever had in your career while you were doing what it took to make your dream become reality. And, you know what? I don't think that there's one guy or gal out there that doesn't feel proud about their level of success after they've worked their arses off for it. In fact, that's what we call that word... PRIDE.
Then along comes Mr. PFTer... Not only is he a liability in the cockpit with his level of INexperience, he also ensures that you and your hard work are never recognized or respected. Hey, if anyone can tell me about the good side of PFT, well then I'm all ears. So far, I've never heard anyone defend it except the folks who are taking the money for it.
DHPFLYN, dude, relax. You'd fly next to Chpr and think he was freak'n hilarious and a bada$$ pilot. That's the problem with Colgan... They have so much talent, and they shat all over them.
Regards fellas,
Jason
chperplt
Registered User
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,123
Thanks Jason
Deadstick..
I don't exactly know how they do the financial aspect of the program. If you have an ATP with 1900 type, I imagine you could get hired as an street captain. I understand they are quite short on Beech Captains.
Too many people stole Homer... A change was due
Deadstick..
I don't exactly know how they do the financial aspect of the program. If you have an ATP with 1900 type, I imagine you could get hired as an street captain. I understand they are quite short on Beech Captains.
Too many people stole Homer... A change was due
Last edited:
OK, please don't anyone slam me for stating an opinion because i don't mean to offend anyone. All of you are absolutely entitled to feel the way you do. i just think it wise to be open to both sides of the argument.
i myself am not PFT, but i have flown with guys who are- and there are certainly some who should not be allowed through the cockpit door. however, to be fair, i also have to admit that there are some who have real potential, and are eager and willing to learn. they simply had a goal and the means and opportunty to reach it, albeit not what we call conventionally. although i don't necessarily agree with the system, i can't fault someone for doing what they feel is right for them personally at that time in their life, and I'd rather fly with them, than a cocky know-it-all who thinks he's God in the cockpit. all i'm trying to say is that maybe rather than judge these guys as a whole, you could try and look at them on a case by case basis.
i myself am not PFT, but i have flown with guys who are- and there are certainly some who should not be allowed through the cockpit door. however, to be fair, i also have to admit that there are some who have real potential, and are eager and willing to learn. they simply had a goal and the means and opportunty to reach it, albeit not what we call conventionally. although i don't necessarily agree with the system, i can't fault someone for doing what they feel is right for them personally at that time in their life, and I'd rather fly with them, than a cocky know-it-all who thinks he's God in the cockpit. all i'm trying to say is that maybe rather than judge these guys as a whole, you could try and look at them on a case by case basis.
DHPFLYN
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2003
- Posts
- 361
Well I am sorry to hear that Colgan pilots are shi- on I don't like to see any pilots treated that way. I have seen on other sites and other posts that the reason people do that pft stuff is to skip all the low paying instructor time that I admit was not all that fun.
If you really think about all te instructing time about 90% did you no good to prepare you for the airlines. Mostly patern work in a 172. So I am not trying to pick sides just letting you know what I have heard.
If you really think about all te instructing time about 90% did you no good to prepare you for the airlines. Mostly patern work in a 172. So I am not trying to pick sides just letting you know what I have heard.
chperplt
Registered User
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,123
DHPFLYN,
I'm confused about something... maybe you can help me out.
You've started 5 threads about Colgan Air going back to last October. You've asked about bases, upgrade times, hiring minimums, and which aircraft the company is hiring into.
You've also asked about the hiring minimums for Xjet..
Your profile says you hold a Type Rating for a CRJ, an ERJ, the ATR, and the 737. You have 4000 hours or more.. Why would you be interested in getting on with Colgan or Xjet? I would think someone with your experience level would be looking to Airtran, ATA, Jetblue, and surely Southwest with that 737 Type.. What gives???
I'm confused about something... maybe you can help me out.
You've started 5 threads about Colgan Air going back to last October. You've asked about bases, upgrade times, hiring minimums, and which aircraft the company is hiring into.
You've also asked about the hiring minimums for Xjet..
Your profile says you hold a Type Rating for a CRJ, an ERJ, the ATR, and the 737. You have 4000 hours or more.. Why would you be interested in getting on with Colgan or Xjet? I would think someone with your experience level would be looking to Airtran, ATA, Jetblue, and surely Southwest with that 737 Type.. What gives???
pipejockey
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2003
- Posts
- 1,041
WhiteCloud
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2002
- Posts
- 1,012
Of course there's a huge difference in spending two years in full time military flight school as opposed learning to fly a C-152 at the local pea patch. With the right guidance and training a civilian 600 hours pilot can be pretty good too. Unfortunately the quality of civilian training and pilots is highly variable. The military product is much more consistent. Don't start the flames. I've never been a military pilot.pipejockey said:
deadstick
Pucker Factor: HIGH
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2002
- Posts
- 706
Diatribe of an unemployed pilot
Disclaimer: No pilots were injured or killed in the making of this letter.
WhiteCloud, et al.
This isn't a flame, but you as a taxpayer would be amazed at the training that goes on in the military. One problem CAN be the contract training. The contractors are paid to graduate pilots. Another is that the military really needs pilots. The "bar" is raised and lowered at will. I know first-hand that one pilot was allowed to fail every checkride in the course up until the last phase before getting washed-out. They finally have a new program that gives the pilots more than 30 hours of training (old system) in the advanced aircraft before they report to their unit.
The military is a very good example of this left/right seat experience difference. Pilots leaving flight school have less than 200 hrs TT (with a lot of sim) and now they're SIC in a combat aircraft. The PIC of that aircraft might have less than 500 TT. Pre 9-11 most pilots flew 100-150 hrs A YEAR. So you COULD have a crew with a total of 7-800 hrs TT flying into combat. A 5000 hr PIC is very rare.
Not all low-time pilots are clueless. I have met several new graduates who were intelligent, articulate, and were motivated to learn everything they could. A role of the PIC is to mentor and teach the future PIC sitting to the right. It doesn't matter whether that person has 600 hrs or 2600 hrs. I understand and appreciate there are certain basics that the SIC should know, like how to read a map, use the radio, and fly. But it's the experience and wisdom passed on to that SIC which shapes the way s/he will perform as a PIC. I've been reading a post about the ERJ and static problems. While on a flight with a newbie, let George fly and discuss scenarios and pass along a "There I was..." story. Sharing experiences, mentoring, and never stop learning are trademarks of professionals. One of the SIC's jobs is to keep learning after IOE, etc. If you get one who is thick-headed and refuses, then eventually that person might need an little, informal sit-down/come-to-Jesus meeting. A little help with his/her cranial-rectaI inversion can be an eye-opener. Otherwise, the person in the other seat is a crewmember and your responsibility.
If there is a problem with their performance, then talk to the training department and HR. They had that pilot first and maybe they need to change something. As far as a pilot being a PFTer or having too few hours, well, I have a problem with the violent bashing that has been going on. First, the company hired these people. Direct your frustration at the right person. Let’s look at history. In the early 80’s, somebody with 6000TT, 5000 ME, 3000 turbine PIC couldn’t get hired. In the early 90’s many companies were PFT, like CAL Express, ValueJet, NetJets, and ACA. In the late 90’s anybody with a CMEL, 1000 TT, and 100ME could get in. How many people got hired in that wave? How many of the captains who finally got hired in the 80’s (i.e. REALLY high time pilots) do you thing believed that _you guys_ who got hired in the late 90’s were too inexperienced and hadn’t paid _your_ dues? How far will you get if you start bashing PFTers and it turns out the captain interviewing you (baited, trick question?) PFTed in the 90’s? You may have been on the receiving end of this and not know it because the internet was in its infancy.
Finally, if you are against PFT, does that mean that nobody should pay for graduate school? What about medical or law school? Just think what that would do to undergrad tuition (because somebody has to pay). Most med students graduate with a $120k in loans and make less than $30k in residency. That’s a mortgage payment right there. They wanted to be doctors so they got loans. Peter Pilot wants to fly for an airline so he gets a loan. What’s the difference?
That's it. Sermon over.
Dismissed.
Disclaimer: No pilots were injured or killed in the making of this letter.
WhiteCloud, et al.
This isn't a flame, but you as a taxpayer would be amazed at the training that goes on in the military. One problem CAN be the contract training. The contractors are paid to graduate pilots. Another is that the military really needs pilots. The "bar" is raised and lowered at will. I know first-hand that one pilot was allowed to fail every checkride in the course up until the last phase before getting washed-out. They finally have a new program that gives the pilots more than 30 hours of training (old system) in the advanced aircraft before they report to their unit.
The military is a very good example of this left/right seat experience difference. Pilots leaving flight school have less than 200 hrs TT (with a lot of sim) and now they're SIC in a combat aircraft. The PIC of that aircraft might have less than 500 TT. Pre 9-11 most pilots flew 100-150 hrs A YEAR. So you COULD have a crew with a total of 7-800 hrs TT flying into combat. A 5000 hr PIC is very rare.
Not all low-time pilots are clueless. I have met several new graduates who were intelligent, articulate, and were motivated to learn everything they could. A role of the PIC is to mentor and teach the future PIC sitting to the right. It doesn't matter whether that person has 600 hrs or 2600 hrs. I understand and appreciate there are certain basics that the SIC should know, like how to read a map, use the radio, and fly. But it's the experience and wisdom passed on to that SIC which shapes the way s/he will perform as a PIC. I've been reading a post about the ERJ and static problems. While on a flight with a newbie, let George fly and discuss scenarios and pass along a "There I was..." story. Sharing experiences, mentoring, and never stop learning are trademarks of professionals. One of the SIC's jobs is to keep learning after IOE, etc. If you get one who is thick-headed and refuses, then eventually that person might need an little, informal sit-down/come-to-Jesus meeting. A little help with his/her cranial-rectaI inversion can be an eye-opener. Otherwise, the person in the other seat is a crewmember and your responsibility.
If there is a problem with their performance, then talk to the training department and HR. They had that pilot first and maybe they need to change something. As far as a pilot being a PFTer or having too few hours, well, I have a problem with the violent bashing that has been going on. First, the company hired these people. Direct your frustration at the right person. Let’s look at history. In the early 80’s, somebody with 6000TT, 5000 ME, 3000 turbine PIC couldn’t get hired. In the early 90’s many companies were PFT, like CAL Express, ValueJet, NetJets, and ACA. In the late 90’s anybody with a CMEL, 1000 TT, and 100ME could get in. How many people got hired in that wave? How many of the captains who finally got hired in the 80’s (i.e. REALLY high time pilots) do you thing believed that _you guys_ who got hired in the late 90’s were too inexperienced and hadn’t paid _your_ dues? How far will you get if you start bashing PFTers and it turns out the captain interviewing you (baited, trick question?) PFTed in the 90’s? You may have been on the receiving end of this and not know it because the internet was in its infancy.
Finally, if you are against PFT, does that mean that nobody should pay for graduate school? What about medical or law school? Just think what that would do to undergrad tuition (because somebody has to pay). Most med students graduate with a $120k in loans and make less than $30k in residency. That’s a mortgage payment right there. They wanted to be doctors so they got loans. Peter Pilot wants to fly for an airline so he gets a loan. What’s the difference?
That's it. Sermon over.
Dismissed.
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