Colgan

[chperplt]

These are the same things that make the transition difficult for the 600 hr new hires (PFT or not). Some pick it up quickly, others don't.

Someone with more experience will generally have an easier time picking up what's going on, and will be able to multitask in the cockpit. I didn't mean to imply that a 600 hour non pft pilot is better than a 600 hour pfter.

BUT

The fact is, many of the 600 hour pfters are not true 600 hour pilots. Many of them have built their time as "safety pilot" doing nothing more than burning holes in the sky in sunny Florida calling out traffic.

A 600 hour pilot who was a CFI is far more experienced than the above mentioned pilot. The 600 hour CFI has been the person in command of a flight who has had to make some serious decisions. The only decision a 600 hour pft safety pilot has made is to turn left or right and say "clear" when they are looking for traffic.

It really has nothing to do with memorizing freqs, or being familiar with airports. You are told most of your freqs by ATC and can look at an airport diagram. The 600 hour CFI is looking at the airport diagram and can actually read it. They are thinking ahead and able to plan ahead of the airplane. The 600 hour pfter is holding on to the tail mentally. I'm not saying he is unable to manipulate the controls of the airplane, but he doesn't have the experience in the air to think ahead of his current position.

Are there exceptions... absolutely.

What exactly did the company do, and is still doing, to this day?

Go through some of the older Colgan threads and you'll get an idea. Things like pressuring captains to fly with non MELable items.. Pressuring captains to take an airplane from another captain that has grounded it and refuses to take it with an "ops checked ok" sign off. Dispatching airplanes under very shady circumstances.

The list can go on and on...

 

[deadstick]

I had to add this here, too.

Free flight training at TabEx. Hmmmmm

 

[USMCAirWinger]

DeadStick...you instigator!

 

[chperplt]

What are FOs upgrading into at 1200 hours, and under what regulations will they be flying????

 

[deadstick]

Hey Marine,

Somebody wiped out the last thread with TabbieFO. I was enjoying that sooo much (and others...I know y'all liked to watch the drama unfold -- just like a car accident). I saw this and had to spread the word.

There was a comment about getting the boot a day shy of three years. Very good point. Better get a lawyer to go over the contract. I guarantee Tab hired one to write it. So training contracts are back. Airnet has one. I know some helo operators who had them.

Let's open this up for comments. Raving wackos are funny, but don't do anything for supporting a point of view.



PS I understand they are going to be 135. I thought the 1200 hrs was funny when they advertise 3500TT for line CA's and trainers.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Florida is an "at will" state or whatever it is called. They could chit can you for no reason when they feel fit.

 

[USMCAirWinger]

Yeah the TAB thread was the funniest thing that I have seen in a while. Honestly it is quite disappointing to see people getting used and abused because of their "love" for aviation. At my current workplace we are being asked to voluntarily take pay cuts in order for them do get the charter going. For those guys that do, they will get a chance to right-seat in a single pilot airplane without pay...WTF! The worst part is that I have co-workers that are willing... so sad.

 

[deadstick]

At my current workplace we are being asked to voluntarily take pay cuts in order for them do get the charter going. For those guys that do, they will get a chance to right-seat in a single pilot airplane without pay...WTF!

Hey!!! I think I used to work there, too!! Everybody has an angle.

WARNING: TANGENTIAL RANT FOLLOWS

I never want to work for a place where I ever have to see the owner on a regular basis or doesn't have enough cash to do mx or credit to get an engine in a day or so. Just because a place operates on a shoe-string budget, it doesn't mean the plane haveto e held together with them.

 

[FlyChicaga]

PS I understand they are going to be 135. I thought the 1200 hrs was funny when they advertise 3500TT for line CA's and trainers.

I believe when you reach 1200 hrs you are "upgraded" to "left seat FO." That's what I gathered from TabFO's posts.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Seafeye,

I thought I was reading a similar post around here a few days ago. That or I must have had a dream about it and thought it was true. Thanks.

 

[chperplt]

They could chit can you for no reason when they feel fit.

I asked my wife about this.. She has her Masters in Human Resources, and worked for the City of Miami for quite a while. She says that you can be fired in Florida for anything at all, except race and religion.

The boss can say you are ugly and fire you for just that.. You can complain to the EEOC, but unless it is race or religion related, you are up the creek without the paddle.

 

[chperplt]

Where did DHPFLYN, the thread starter go??

I still want to know why he is interested in Colgan and Xjet hiring mins with his 4000 hours and CRJ, ERJ, ATR, and 737 Type.. He seems to have disappeared once I asked him about this???

 

[CTS]

I went to Tab a few years ago with all my ratings, flew 200 hrs in the King Air, Colgan showed up and hired three of us with 500 or less hours. We did not pay Colgan one $$. All three got through traing just fine. In fact I was asked to take my check ride early because two other 1500 hr + pilots were having difficulity and needed extra sim time. (These same two pilots/x-flight instructors, also recently failed a PC check) I passed my PC check just fine and was given good marks for being prepared. Upgrade is coming soon and every one I fly with says I am ready.

I do not know what the current screening process is at Colgan, but it should be just like what me and the other two TAB guys did: :45 min interview followed by at sim check, reguardless if they are paying $$ to Colgan or not.

My point is don't put all of the low time guys in the same catagory. Each pilot should be judged as an individual, not as a group.

Everyone I fly with has positive feedback as to my flying skills.

 

[chperplt]

CTS

How long have you been at Colgan? Maybe I know you...

You're right.. Not all low timers should be lumped in together. The big point I was trying to make was low timers who got their "600" hours doing nothing shouldn't be there with passengers..

If you've been at Colgan for any length of time, you know how the training department works. We can talk at length of those who haven't failed PC checks even though they had to retrain on many more than 2 items.

If you were fortunate enough to have a sim instructor with the initials DM, then you were trained properly. DM doesn't let anything slide, and if you're not up to par, he'll fail you. He's the only one... I'm also a fan of the Director of Training.. I think he's a great pilot and good teacher. I think his heart is in the right place. The problem is the same that was at the root of the accident... Pressure from above to spend as little money with as little effort as possible.

 

[USMCAirWinger]

Must be a high-roller...how much did the 200 hrs cost you?

 

[CTS]

I look at it this way. I was not interested in being a flight instructor, plus after 9/11/01 not to many places were hiring. So I left my current job at the time and started my own company. This allowed me to be flexible with my time, while still paying the bills. It took me 6months to get it up and running. Then I found a good flight instructor and got all my ratings in 7 months. I was to enter the ASA direct program in Vero Beach but it shut down after 911. I decided to get my CFI, but before I started I happened to see an ad for TAB in Flying Mag. I visited the school and figured that it was so new that if they wanted any more students they would have to get me a job somewhere. I was right. Colgan hired me and a month later I was offered an interview at Chicago Express. I did not go since I was in my third week at Colgan.

Another factor for me was how fast could I get to the right seat of a 121 carrier. The faster I got here the faster I can get to a higher paying position. Remember we all have to quit at age 60. All the big bucks hopefully come at the middle to end of the flying career. So the longer I spend flight instructing the less big money there is in the end. Flight instructing in Florida would keep me away from my family and have little value in the 121 world (except for building flight time and dealing with BAD low time pilots!).

TAB has very high quality training.
At TAB I had 100 hrs in the King Air Sim doing emergency procedures. When I showed up for Sim at Colgan, it was just like the 100 hrs at TAB. Ground school at Colgan was a little better than TAB because of Capt. Timmons experience in the 1900, but TAB's 1900 ground school was close. The Delta 737 Capt just hadn't flown the 1900 in a while. I mastered the crosswind landing in something bigger than a Cessna before there were 19 pax behind me. Some pilots I fly with now still have problems with the crosswind landing. (One MD-80 Capt invited me over to his house to fly his Pitts. That's a cool plane!)

The direct route was a good one for me. I worked hard to learn as much as possible while I was down there for 4 months. TAB has a great program that no one matches. But you only get out of it what you put into it. There were some lazy guys down there that never seemed to measure up to standards, but no one did anything because remember its still a business and the customer is the student who is paying a lot of money. I hope that since Colgan has started PFT, they look at the applicants flying skill and not the 20K put on the table. I believe that the flight schools are screening the students before Colgan looks at them but I would guess that it’s a credit check and not a flight check.

The rumor now at CL is most of the TAB guys can fly but the problems seem to be with some RAA guys. Their program is much different. They do not get any actual king air time. So they graduate from Cessna to the SAAB. Plus they do not seem to be taught respect. A few have called the Director of Flight Standards to complain that their Capt is not flying the ILS profile into Boston. What an idiot. One, to call the DFT on a Capt and two, if they flew the normal profile in BOS they would be splattered on the front of an AMR 757. To be fair we also seem to have a new TAB FO that will not keep his mouth shut. He talks all the time and even worse, he talks slow.

You have to look at all the options. I did and picked the best one for me. I had the means necessary to go the TAB route. Others have chosen a different route and they are not any worse off in doing so.


Chperplt we flew together in SYR once.

 

[chperplt]

Chperplt we flew together in SYR once

Good.. Then you hopefully know I'm not as big an ass as I appear on here at time!

 

[DHPFLYN]

chperplt,

Wow I feel so honered that you are worried about where I have gone. Unlike alot of you I do have to work and don't worry about this website everyday. If you must know I am checking around for my nephew who is trying to get in with an airline. Plus it's just alot of fun to just put Colgan air name up and watch how many people start crying about the company.

Keep up the good work !!

 

[Titanium]

Hmmm...I find it ironic that someone over on Eaglelounge with the name of DHPFLYIN posted the following on 02/08:

"Hey, I am looking for a little help I currently have 980TT with 550Multi and 400 Turbine. Should I even bother to apply or would I even have a chance?

Thanks for your help"

 

[USMCAirWinger]

Thats awesome!