Colgan Airlines stall recovery

[Flyer1015]

Apparently it is the following procedure:

1) do not add power.
2) pull on the stick pusher as it is trying to push forward.
3) retract flaps.
4) retract gear.

Yes, I feel these guys are being pretty badly hammered in the media. But someone please help me to understand this...

No it is not.

THESE are their actual stall profiles:

http://www.ntsb.gov/Dockets/Aviation/DCA09MA027/417477.pdf

He did add power, retract flaps, and gear. The question/problem becomes regarding pitch. YOU weren't there that night, so don't judge. The airline I work at, and Colgan too, train you to the stick shaker for stall recovery. No one ever shows "well, and when the pusher goes off, then do this...." in the sim. No one takes it that far, and Colgan said that the FAA doesn't require it to be taken that far. Now who are you to judge what you would or wouldn't have done once the pusher activated only 1000 feet above the ground.

If pilot error is to blame, it is the training program that should be primarily blamed. Stall profiles at airlines need to be changed. And not to mention, fatiuge and scheduling rules need to be changed, but the FAA will not give a rats as$ when power airline lobbyists use their "pressure."

 

[jhwk0309]

I haven't been following this story. Is the cause anything to do with an Ice Contaminated Tailplane Stall?

 

[T-prop]

I haven't been following this story. Is the cause anything to do with an Ice Contaminated Tailplane Stall?

Nope, however, his recovery technique appears to be a very similar response to one.

Unfortunately, he was in normal stall condition...that they put themselves in. Retracting the flaps immediately after stick pusher is a very bad thing to do... for a normal stall...

Speed was down to the 130's at flaps 5 just before the stick shaker activated. That is approximately the Vref when fully configured for icing conditions.

 

[flyf15]

Raise your hand if you've been taught by a Part 121 airline during the stall recovery section of simulator training to not lose altitude at all costs, no matter how long you keep it in the shaker, how much you ride the barber pole, and how close you get to a pusher.

"Don't let the nose drop!"

 

[Usual Suspect]

Nope, however, his recovery technique appears to be a very similar response to one.

Unfortunately, he was in normal stall condition...that they put themselves in. Retracting the flaps immediately after stick pusher is a very bad thing to do... for a normal stall...

Speed was down to the 130's at flaps 5 just before the stick shaker activated. That is approximately the Vref when fully configured for icing conditions.

Actually they were at flaps 15:

22:16:23.5
HOT-1 flaps fifteen before landing checklist.
22:16:26.0
CAM [sound similar to flap handle movement]

 

[Thurman Merman]

I've been in those kind of cockpits. Makes the day go quicker, but can cause problems.

If you look at the transcripts, you'll also notice a 26 second period from "22:15:59.5 CAM [sound similar to decrease in engine power] " to the beginning of the stick shaker.

Does Colgan set a speed bug anywhere for what speed you intend to fly? Or is it just set a Vref+ when it's briefed?

As I remember it's Vref and GA. But it has been 7 months.

 

[LazyLightnin']

Raise your hand if you've been taught by a Part 121 airline during the stall recovery section of simulator training to not lose altitude at all costs, no matter how long you keep it in the shaker, how much you ride the barber pole, and how close you get to a pusher.

"Don't let the nose drop!"

And what do they tell you when you pitch up 30 degrees?

 

[Thurman Merman]

A factor not discussed is the stupid "Increase ref speed switch." When in icing conditions and turned on it raises the low speed que about 20 knots hence the necessity for getting the corrected ref speeds for Icing conditions, or just remembering to bumb up your ref speed +15/+20 depending on flap setting. When the shaker occured it was a system manufactured event due to this little switch being moved to the on position. The stall was a result of the sudden pitch up. When the shaker occured there was still plenty of flying speed.

 

[LazyLightnin']

A factor not discussed is the stupid "Increase ref speed switch." When in icing conditions and turned on it raises the low speed que about 20 knots hence the necessity for getting the corrected ref speeds for Icing conditions, or just remembering to bumb up your ref speed +15/+20 depending on flap setting. When the shaker occured it was a system manufactured event due to this little switch being moved to the on position. The stall was a result of the sudden pitch up. When the shaker occured there was still plenty of flying speed.

So if the low speed que goes up there is still a visual indication, right? You'd still just keep the airspeed out of the red?

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Have to agree with flyf15, the current protocol demands that you not lose altitude during stall recovery, which requires you to pull the stick back to recover from a stall! Is this ATP PTS? If so, then the blame lies with the FAA. But of course, this whole thing will be blamed on "nonessential communications below 10,000."