Colgan 3047 NEW

[RJLoser]

Colgan 3407 New Info

According to the NTSB:

The AC was landing to the southwest. Crash site indicated AC impacted flat not nose down. AC was facing the NW. Opposite of direction it was landing.

NTSB also stated the stick shaker was acitvated which was followed by the stick pusher. The autopilot was on until the AC disconnected it. The flaps were seleced 15. The flaps only reached 10 before the crew selected them up.

 

[Max Q]

This definitely required its own thread.

 

[airplane wizard]

I thought they were not supposed to use the a/p in icing conditions as a result of the atr in Indiana?

 

[WSurf]

I thought they were not supposed to use the a/p in icing conditions as a result of the atr in Indiana?

You can use it, but ever so often you should disconnect it and feel the pressures of Roll and Pitch.

Now if your in really bad ice, were its building faster then the boots can shed it (which I have only seen 3 times in my flying career), then you should be handflying the plane and at the same time trying to exit the extreme icing conditions. And like the NASA video reports a change of 2000' feet either up or down will definitely change how much ice you are accumilating.

 

[ms6073]

I have read of numerous pilots with time in type comment how confident they were in the airframes abilities during icing encounters but I have to wonder. Any thoughts on the posibility that as a result of ice acretion during descent and level off, that the AP was streadily rolling in elevator trim (as in Roselawn)?

 

[TOOL CRIB]

I have read of numerous pilots with time in type comment how confident they were in the airframes abilities during icing encounters but I have to wonder. Any thoughts on the posibility that as a result of ice acretion during descent and level off, that the AP was streadily rolling in elevator trim (as in Roselawn)?

All these guys saying how well their airframe handles ice just means they haven't crashed yet

 

[joe_pilot]

According to the NTSB:

The AC was landing to the southwest. Crash site indicated AC impacted flat not nose down. AC was facing the NW. Opposite of direction it was landing.

NTSB also stated the stick shaker was acitvated which was followed by the stick pusher. The autopilot was on until the AC disconnected it. The flaps were seleced 15. The flaps only reached 10 before the crew selected them up.

While this might sound like a 180 degree offset, it's really probably(possibly) much less.

Last vector was to hdg 260 to join, so the upset event only had to turn them 30 degrees or so to the right to be facing NW.

This crew went down fighting, trying to recover from the event.

I'm gonna raise my glass to them right now. Again.

Everybody fly safe.

-JP

 

[G21Agoose]

This definitely required its own thread.

Well said.

 

[ms6073]

Agree - well said!

Another question for those with time in type, I realize that one of the displays on the instrument panel would be configured to include control/trim config data but if both pilots had PD/ND configured for the approach, can the FO see the elevator trim indicator on the left side of the pedestal from the right seat. I am asking based on a cursory glance at a couple cockpit photos which seems to suggest the actual pitch trim indicator on the left side of the pedestal might be masked by the power levers!

 

[G21Agoose]

Agree - well said!

Another question for those with time in type, I realize that one of the displays on the instrument panel would be configured to include control/trim config data but if both pilots had PD/ND configured for the approach, can the FO see the elevator trim indicator on the left side of the pedestal from the right seat. I am asking based on a cursory glance at a couple cockpit photos which seems to suggest the actual pitch trim indicator on the left side of the pedestal might be masked by the power levers!

OK, I just puked on my Spaniel..........uke: