CoEx to keep the 69 erj's

[commuterguy]

I hear there is a point to point "branded" airline in the works. Little birdie visited our class today.

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

I hope you guys don't lose your jobs, but if you get another code share you will be inturn "stealing" another regionals flying as how its been put by most of you.

Welcome to the race to the bottom guys.

Are you serious? If we replace another regional's flying with our own, how would that be contributing to the "race to the bottom?" Wouldn't that demonstrate that it is possible to have the highest pay rates and work rules in the 50 seat market, and still be able to gain work without concessions and whoring ourselves out, as so many other regionals have done? I would think this would be a good trend for all of us.

 

[Superpilot92]

Some of you numbnuts that are trying to point out anything you can and spin it negetive need to relax. The chief pilots came in and talked to us today and said that the planes are being placed into service where all XJET employees will be working with them. Not just pilots but MX, MGMT, Agents, etc. The plans that are in place are to protect jobs as well as to make money. The difference between XJT and alot of other companies is that the Company tries to make sure that we work as a team and have respect for each other. Think about it, MGMT could have easily come to us and asked for pay cuts to better compete for the CAL flying. They never asked for 1 cent from us. We have a good company over here that the majority of people i would assume would agree that they are proud to be an XJETer. For this level of the career chain its a good place to work.

Also think about this, If our mgmt didnt already have some other flying already set up do you think they would have announced this already? We had till the end of Sept to disclose whether we were going to keep the planes or not. If we didnt have something lined up we would have dragged our feet till the last min. Somethings are already in place, i know our mgmt would takeon the planes yet with the hopes of landing some flying. JMHO

 

[propsarebest]

Not to rock the boat or anything, but what would happen if COEX managment decides to just park the airplanes? ya know, if we can't have them nobody will kinda thing.

 

[Superpilot92]

Not to rock the boat or anything, but what would happen if COEX managment decides to just park the airplanes? ya know, if we can't have them nobody will kinda thing.

Not gonna happen, we will fly them point to point before we park them. Whatever mgmt comes up with has a long time to try and make it work. The difference between this and Indy is that we have 75% of CALs feed with a gurenteed profit until the end of 2009 in which CAL can either take 25% again. these next few months are going to be interesting.

 

[Baronman]

Not to rock the boat or anything, but what would happen if COEX managment decides to just park the airplanes? ya know, if we can't have them nobody will kinda thing.

Parking the aircraft would be a spiteful yet totally wasteful thing to do. Remember, they're in the business of making money, not getting back at people. You think someone who's trying to make money would park 69 planes with a multi-million dollar bill to pay each month? Just to prove a point? Not happening.....

 

[Alchemy]

Yeah, I don't think anyone is ready to uncork the champagne yet. These planes could still be sent overseas or somewhere else where we won't be flying them.

I would expect maybe a dozen of them to be flown in an independent scheduled operation between the US and Mexico, maybe a few dozen sent overseas, a few dozen used in another codeshare, and a half a dozen or so used in an on-demand/frac type operation.

If we found a way to keep just half of the 69 operating here in the states that would probably be enough to avoid furloughing any pilots.

 

[Superpilot92]

Trust me unless you guys are flying for teams or something no NJ, FLOPS, CS, or Flex is going to touch a worn out erj. The owners aren't flying erj's for a reason.

69 planes to put on charter is a huge chore. Not to mention what happens when the pax show up a couple of hours late.

see you in ASE

I agree with old worn out erjs but the problem is that 44 of those aircraft are Brand new XRs some of which arent even a month old. We have a 135 cetificate already inplace that we bought into last year. www.wingaviation.com With buying wing we also have the ability to convert our aircraft to corporate cabin layouts.

ExpressJet Purchases Non-Controlling Interest in Wing Aviation
HOUSTON, Texas - June 20, 2005 – Wing Aviation announced today that ExpressJet Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: XJT) purchased a non-controlling interest in the company.

“The Wing Aviation team providesexcellent leadership and a developedprivate aviation business that is second to none. We intend to combine our economies of scale with Wing Aviation’s exceptional quality and service to maximize the benefits for both companies,” said Jim Ream, President and Chief Executive Officer of ExpressJet. “Through this partnership our goal is to become the lowest cost, highest quality provider of private aviation services.”
ExpressJet and Wing Aviation will provide aviation services ranging from high-quality commercial and private travel to exceptional airframe maintenance, avionics installations and aircraft painting.
“This agreement allows ExpressJet to establish a presence in private aviation, utilizing an established and respected brand, ” said Brian P. Wing, President of Wing Aviation. “ExpressJet recognizes the value of our employees and our ability to consistently and successfully deliver a quality product. Together, we can provide premium service and unparalleled reliability to our customers.”

On top of that we own our own mx shops and paint shops. The idea was that we could offer a large cabin aircraft with good range for a cheaper price because we have all of our own ops already in place to spread costs out over. I am curious what the range would be on the XR if it was taken down to 19 seats or so because we are doing IAH to BOI now with 50 PAX and full bags. This is only one option the company is looking at but who knows till it happens. The truth is today was the first step in the right direction for us as a company and over the next few months we are going to be finding out more.

 

[B727FA]

If we replace another regional's flying with our own, how would that be contributing to the "race to the bottom?" ...and still be able to gain work without concessions and whoring ourselves out...

You mean like CHQ? Good for the goose...

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

It's a great day to be a Jetlinker.

 

[Alchemy]

I am curious what the range would be on the XR if it was taken down to 19 seats or so because we are doing IAH to BOI now with 50 PAX and full bags. This is only one option the company is looking at but who knows till it happens.

The range would be the same, about 1300NM with reserves and an altnt. The fuel tanks only hold so much gas.

 

[Superpilot92]

The range would be the same, about 1300NM with reserves and an altnt. The fuel tanks only hold so much gas.

Then tell me this why does the Legacy have such a higher range?

http://www.wingcharter.com/CHARTER_content.html

the link didnt work as planned click on it then click on the fleet and then the legacy that is now on their cetificate.

 

[Diesel]

The legacy has more fuel.

It doesn't matter if it's brand new its still an RJ and even the legacys aren't flying off of the shelves.

Plus flying 135 is a totally different dog. Pax not showing, brining lawn mowers on board. Plus indigo, and Indi has allready tried it.

 

[MJG]

My thoughts on all this, having been with COEX for almost 8 years........

Not sure why everyone is throwing a party like we just rang in the new year or something. Today's announcement was pretty much a given, I thought we all knew that. I suppose that junior pilots who were concerned about their jobs, and junior captains concerned about losing their seats are certainly breathing a little easier. Certainly the timing of the announcement was a surprise, does that mean they've got some solid stuff lined up, I don't know. I for one am not ready to proclaim JR the allmighty savior just yet. I'm a realist and I've seen good things come apart at the hubs, like a set of left mains this week in Houston, with little or no warning. I for one will not be happy at all if we "take over" another carrier's flying, what the XJ guys are going through is pure hell. Pinnacle folks have been without a new contract for how long now? I don't want their flying at any cost. From what I gather we'll see a mix of charter with a very small number of those aircraft(10 or less), point to point flying with XR's(lots of gates available in MCI) and MAYBE just MAYBE some aircraft used to fly for another mainline carrier. Who knows, maybe some will end up in Europe, but that is bad news as none of us will be flying them. The point to point flying thing sounds fun but in all reality, will it work? Can you really honestly make money, in today's cut-throat low fares market, with a 50 seat regional jet?? Didn't work too well for Independence. Maybe it will work better for us. I don't know. Who knows, maybe we'll try what Air Whisky did and use some of our cash reserves to "infuse" some life into another struggling Legacy, cough....Delta....cough. But that means someone else probably gets the shaft. I wouldn't be proud of that.

The only real winner in all this is our master, our landlord, our pimp daddy, Continental Airlines. They're laughing all the way to the bank and beyond.

Just my guarded thoughts.

 

[Superpilot92]

My thoughts on all this, having been with COEX for almost 8 years........

Not sure why everyone is throwing a party like we just rang in the new year or something. Today's announcement was pretty much a given, I thought we all knew that. I suppose that junior pilots who were concerned about their jobs, and junior captains concerned about losing their seats are certainly breathing a little easier. Certainly the timing of the announcement was a surprise, does that mean they've got some solid stuff lined up, I don't know. I for one am not ready to proclaim JR the allmighty savior just yet. I'm a realist and I've seen good things come apart at the hubs, like a set of left mains this week in Houston, with little or no warning. I for one will not be happy at all if we "take over" another carrier's flying, what the XJ guys are going through is pure hell. Pinnacle folks have been without a new contract for how long now? I don't want their flying at any cost. From what I gather we'll see a mix of charter with a very small number of those aircraft(10 or less), point to point flying with XR's(lots of gates available in MCI) and MAYBE just MAYBE some aircraft used to fly for another mainline carrier. Who knows, maybe some will end up in Europe, but that is bad news as none of us will be flying them. The point to point flying thing sounds fun but in all reality, will it work? Can you really honestly make money, in today's cut-throat low fares market, with a 50 seat regional jet?? Didn't work too well for Independence. Maybe it will work better for us. I don't know. Who knows, maybe we'll try what Air Whisky did and use some of our cash reserves to "infuse" some life into another struggling Legacy, cough....Delta....cough. But that means someone else probably gets the shaft. I wouldn't be proud of that.

The only real winner in all this is our master, our landlord, our pimp daddy, Continental Airlines. They're laughing all the way to the bank and beyond.

Just my guarded thoughts.

Your correct about not jumping for joy just yet but i firmly believe the planes have flying already set up and being finalized because XJET didnt have to come out with this announcement yet. If they dont have flying set up for those planes yet dont you think they would be dragging their feet about what the plans were in regards to either keeping or returning them to CAL. Mgmt wouldnt have come out this early and said we are keeping them with the hopes of maybe securing some flying with them. What are the eventual plans for these aircraft?, we will know pretty soon but i think that since they came out with this announcement so early on in the year that should show that those planes have flying somewhere.JMO

Something else to think about is that XJT has 100 options available for XR's that are transferable to 170/190s. Which we all know Embraer doesnt want to build more 50 seaters and would love nothing more than for us to use those options. Just a thought. I thought those were CALS options but they arent they are ours.

 

[Alchemy]

http://www.embraercommercialjets.com/english/content/erj/erj_145xr.asp?tela=payload_vs_range

Here's the answer according to Embraer. Their numbers seem a little bit optimistic if you ask me. According to them the XR can do 2100 NM with 50 people and about 2400 NM with 15 people. Maybe if you fly .65 the whole and you dead stick it in at the destination. Either that or I'm missing something here.

As far as I know the fuel capacity on the legacy is the same as the 135LR, so I have no idea why they claim it can go 3000 NM. It can go to FL390, has the A1/3 engines which burn less fuel. I suppose If you climbed like a bat out of hell at 220 knots up to FL 390 then cruised at .65 you might be able to squeeze something close to 2000 NM out of a legacy, but I don't really understand how you could get 3000 NM.

Let's say you burn 750lbs/side at FL 390 and about 350 true. With the tanks topped off at 11,000 lbs in a legacy minus, say 1000 lbs for climbing at an average of 250 true, That gives you about 7 hours of endurance until you're a glider. I can't see how you'd get much more than 2000 NM out of a legacy with any kind of reserve, but maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Diesel]

You must be because the X holds 13,000lbs of fuel. Of course we are just using the fuel for speed.

Legacydriver flies one all over the world. He would have the best answer.

 

[Alchemy]

Yeah, I was using 11,000 lbs for a legacy, since he was asking why embraer claims it can go 3000 NM. I'm pretty sure the legacy just holds 5717/side, like the LR's. No ventral tank on the legacy.

Anyway all just estimates.

 

[Superpilot92]

The XR can carry 13119 lbs of fuel. But we are only authorized to fly at .80 and at FL370.

I thought the legacy did have a ventral tank?

 

[Alchemy]

Not according to Legacy driver.

 

[Superpilot92]

http://www.embraerexecutivejets.com/english/content/aircraft/performance_legacy600.asp?strLink=capacity
maybe its a new feature

 

[Alchemy]

Well if it holds that much fuel then I guess it's obvious why it can go 3000NM.

 

[Superpilot92]

Yup!!!

 

[phishhman]

deleted

 

[Diesel]

yeah i remember something about the cargo fuel tank. They don't need all that baggage space.

 

[amcnd]

Maybe Virgin America!!!

 

[LegacyDriver]

http://www.embraercommercialjets.com/english/content/erj/erj_145xr.asp?tela=payload_vs_range

Here's the answer according to Embraer. Their numbers seem a little bit optimistic if you ask me. According to them the XR can do 2100 NM with 50 people and about 2400 NM with 15 people. Maybe if you fly .65 the whole and you dead stick it in at the destination. Either that or I'm missing something here.

As far as I know the fuel capacity on the legacy is the same as the 135LR, so I have no idea why they claim it can go 3000 NM. It can go to FL390, has the A1/3 engines which burn less fuel. I suppose If you climbed like a bat out of hell at 220 knots up to FL 390 then cruised at .65 you might be able to squeeze something close to 2000 NM out of a legacy, but I don't really understand how you could get 3000 NM.

Let's say you burn 750lbs/side at FL 390 and about 350 true. With the tanks topped off at 11,000 lbs in a legacy minus, say 1000 lbs for climbing at an average of 250 true, That gives you about 7 hours of endurance until you're a glider. I can't see how you'd get much more than 2000 NM out of a legacy with any kind of reserve, but maybe I'm missing something.

Hey guys. Yep, definitely missing something (thanks for the "best answer" pug, BTW).

The Legacy II with A1E engines carries in excess of 18,000 lbs of fuel (depending on fuel density roughlt 18,500 lbs). With 8 pax and 0.74M Cruise you get an NBAA IFR RESERVE Range of 3250NM at FL390. Accelerate to 0.80M and you get 3050NM with NBAA IFR RESERVE. No numbers are out for the FL410 birds yet and Embraer may not change them from the 390 airplanes... OTOH we might get 50NM out of it. One can hope.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Also, I thought I should point out there are two sub variants of the Legacy.

The Legacy Executive is the hotrod. It has a bisected forward belly tank and an aft bisected fuselage tank (aft of the baggage compartment) in addition to the standard LR wing tanks. It carries up to 13 pax and three crew (plus a jumpseater). It has all the gas and interior, winglets, aerodynamic improvements, etc. To get the long range. Flight Options has all of the old A1P Legacy Executives (a.k.a. Legacy I), a few A1E Legacy jets (a.k.a. Legacy II and III), and is in the process of buying new FL410 Legacy jets (a.k.a. Legacy IV).

The other is the Legacy Shuttle which is essentially a 135LR with more comfortable seating. AeroDynamics, Inc. operates these for Intel. Seating options are anywhere from 15 to 37.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Also, I thought I should point out there are two sub variants of the Legacy.

The Legacy Executive is the hotrod. It has a bisected forward belly tank and an aft bisected fuselage tank (aft of the baggage compartment) in addition to the standard LR wing tanks. It carries up to 13 pax and three crew (plus a jumpseater). It has all the gas and interior, winglets, aerodynamic improvements, etc. To get the long range. Flight Options has all of the old A1P Legacy Executives (a.k.a. Legacy I), a few A1E Legacy jets (a.k.a. Legacy II and III), and is in the process of buying new FL410 Legacy jets (a.k.a. Legacy IV).

The other is the Legacy Shuttle which is essentially a 135LR with more comfortable seating. AeroDynamics, Inc. operates these for Intel. Seating options are anywhere from 15 to 37.

 

[ratherbeflyen]

Just wondering, but why do you think you won't lose your job? Where do you think those 69 airframes are going to be put into immediate service...Not a flame or bash but really? 135...for who?

Actually, since you quoted me, I'm not that close to losing my job anyway. About 300 or so deep now and by the time CHQ makes the transition ... I should be fine. As it would just so happen that I applied to Horizon at the same time I applied here, and Horizon called me last week for an intierview. I was thinking it was pretty good timing and was filling out the paperwork for the QX interview when I got a phone call.

We are already doing 135. I understand that sports teams, mostly college, are a fairly common charter. Other than that I refuse to add to the myths and flames.