Cockpit size of bizjets

[netjetwife]

Actually, Monkey, that brings up a good point. When your work environment is cramped it is helpful to keep the excess weight off.

Let me save my detractors the trouble of making snide remarks. The above is a general observation; not the voice of personal experience. Unless, we count being 8 months pregnant and squeezing behind the wheel of my car. Then yes, I can certainly imagine the jam some hefty pilot might find himself in..... I'm all for healthy crew meals.

 

[spitfire1940]

I'm 6 feet tall with long legs and fly a C560, same thing basically as an Ultra.

The hardest thing about the Citation cockpit is the kabookee dance you've got to do to get into the seat. Take out all the crap behind the seat (my company keeps the AFMs back there) and you can slide back a couple more inches.

In my experience, most Citation legs don't last more than 2 hours, but the occasional three-four hour flights can be extremely uncomfortable. I just did a Billings to White Plains flight that pushed me to the edge.

Cessna must have been thinking of the US women's gymnastics team when they designed the 500 series cockpit.

 

[CA1900]

I'm all for healthy crew meals.

Speaking of which, as a recent hire at NJA, what can I expect as far as the crew meals go? I understand they're not as luxurious as they once were, but can I put together something reasonably tasty and healthy? Coming from an airline background, I'm sure everything will be better than food court crap, but I'm just curious what kinds of things people are getting at NetJets.

 

[netjetwife]

NJ pilots now choose their meals from pre-set menu choices, 7 selections for each meal. So for those who like everything you'd never have to eat the same meal twice in a tour. To me the meals look quite reasonable, providing the caterer follows thru and the pilots are encouraged to report those who do not. My husband has had few complaints. It's to be expected that there'd be some grumbling after having been allowed to order as they pleased in the past. Considering the higher salaries, it is a good trade-off. The meals are--

Breakfast: Omelet--ham & cheese, vegetarian, or egg-beaters. Pancakes w/links, cereal, Breakfast burrito w/salsa and sour cream, or ham steak. The sides range from yogurt, fresh fruit, cottage cheese, muffins, toast, home fries, and hard boiled eggs. Drinks are milk or OJ.

Lunch: Caprese sandwich, Turkey club, beef burrito, chicken wrap, PB&J, Greek salad, or chicken Caesar salad. All sandwiches are on wheat, dressings are low fat. Sides include, cheese & crackers, chips, fruit, yogurt, cottage cheese, celery sticks w/PB, cole slaw, and hummus w/pita. No drink.

Dinner: Grilled chicken strips, London broil, BBQ combo of 2 meats, chicken stir fry, grilled salmon or white fish, veggie burger. Sides are--roasted, mashed, or baked potatoes, grilled or steamed vegetables, dinner salad, cole slaw, fruit, and rolls. Desserts are brownies, cobbler, cake, cookies, low carb, or sugar free. No drink.

Although the meals are pre-set the choices are varied enough that a pilot could maintain a balanced diet. Heavier menus can be off-set with a lighter selection for the next meal. There are a number of items that could be saved for a snack later. The NJ crew food menus are changed quarterly and I think the pilots may get to vote for some selections. On the NJ board the menus are displayed with photos and complete lists of the ingredients of each meal.

 

[Diesel]

Considering the higher salaries, it is a good trade-off.

They are catering not because they are nice but because they know they can keep the buts in the seats. For every 10 dollar crew meal that they slop at us the jet can be charged at another 5,000 an hour.

The new menu is okay but the quality of the food is not.

Don't look at it as a perk.

 

[netjetwife]

I didn't suggest that it was done out of niceness. If that were the case, they'd have kept it as it was. Compromises are inherent in any negotiated settlement. Limits to the crew meals being ordered was a logical place to start. Many would view the old system of ordering what you wanted as a perk--one that was certainly easy to accustomed to. Clearly the new arrangement isn't that and it's human nature that downgrading always takes more getting used to. It is a reasonable meal system that can satisfy the average pilot. There is a mechanism to address legitimate problems with quality that pilots should avail themselves of so that standards are met.

The answer is to make sure the pilots wages compensate them as the professionals they are and are adjusted to reflect the demands imposed by flying through meal times. If that is done there will be less animosity surrounding the meals that are provided by the company. It's all relative; the better the salary, the more the meal will be viewed as a perk. There aren't many NJ pilots that see the meals that way, I'd guess. Many probably do see it as a satisfactory arrangement. FOs may be adequately fed but they certainly aren't paid that way....

It's a new version of the "grass is always greener" debate...

The food is always tastier in the other cockpit....

 

[netjetwife]

....The hardest thing about the Citation cockpit is the kabookee dance you've got to do to get into the seat. In my experience, most Citation legs don't last more than 2 hours, but the occasional three-four hour flights can be extremely uncomfortable. I just did a Billings to White Plains flight that pushed me to the edge.

That probably has a lot to do with why my husband likes shorter flights. So staying limber is a job requirement for flying a Citation? Not something the average person would ever guess.... Say, you guys could teach yoga instructors a few new moves....

 

[skiandsurf]

Speaking of which, as a recent hire at NJA, what can I expect as far as the crew meals go?

The selection isnt too bad, its trying to eat in the cockpit that is bad. Also, most of the planes dont have ovens, except the Falcon, so eating cold omeletes and chicken strips is the norm.

They have a "healthy choice" breakfast. Cereal, yogurt, orange juice. That is easy.

For lunch, I have been having the Turkey Club sandwich....used to have a wrap.

For dinner, a handful of selections, but remember its tough to really enjoy it in the cockpit.

 

[CA1900]

Diesel -- compared to what I'm dealing with right now, it is a perk, although it sounds like things aren't as flexible as when you could order anything you wanted. More money, worse food. Maybe something to talk about next contract?

It's still far better than my current gig, where we often have turns that don't allow us time to even buy from the awful food vendors in the airline terminals, and that's if the airport even has anything. Basically, we're trapped away from (usable) food sources just as you guys are, but without any kind of meal available unless we packed it at the beginning of our 4-day. For example, "breakfast" this morning was a 400-calorie package of pop-tarts that kept me going for about an hour. I'd have killed for an omelet, even cold, compared to my stale breakfast tart!

Don't worry, I'm sure I'll be pining for better food within my first month on the line. :cartman:

And NJW, thanks for typing up the detailed descriptions of the crew meals; it's much appreciated.

 

[brokeflyer]

They are catering not because they are nice but because they know they can keep the buts in the seats. For every 10 dollar crew meal that they slop at us the jet can be charged at another 5,000 an hour.

The new menu is okay but the quality of the food is not.

Don't look at it as a perk.

$10?......yeah for just the bread....try more like $50-$60 per crew meal....

 

[Bad Monkey!]

Stop drinking the kool-aid. Crew meals are what keep the airplanes moving and keep the cash rolling in all day. The crew meals suck period! Quality and quantity are way down. Looking forward to a side salad with your meal? you will get some lettuce stuffed into a water cooler sized dixie cup. Some of the stuff isn't safe for human consumption. Lots of cases where there have been moldy food or spoiled food because it sits at the caterers for weeks on end. But hey, that's what you get when you only pay a caterer $10 for breakfast, $15 for lunch, and $20 for dinner. Did I mention that delivery is included? What kind of quality do you think we are getting when the caterers are taking a hit just for doing business with Netjets? Stevies on the West coast is losing big bucks on us. It's not only our food, but the customers food as well that is looking bad.

If you want a good meal you have to order two or three selections at a time, and it is not just for a decent selection, it is to keep from going hungry. If one meal sucks you have a nalternate to get you through to the next leg to order yet another two or three meals.

Yeah great, another bean counter figured out a way to save a few pennies. This business is all about customer care, that was thrown out the window with the new contract. Funny thing is that a bean counter can't figure out that the company really does need to take care of the pilots in order to keep the planes moving. When we start to park them and go get a decent meal then maybe they will figure it out.

We can thank Dick for the food fiasco. Those in the know know whom I am talking about.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Stop drinking the kool-aid. Crew meals are what keep the airplanes moving and keep the cash rolling in all day. The crew meals suck period! Quality and quantity are way down. Looking forward to a side salad with your meal? you will get some lettuce stuffed into a water cooler sized dixie cup. Some of the stuff isn't safe for human consumption. Lots of cases where there have been moldy food or spoiled food because it sits at the caterers for weeks on end. But hey, that's what you get when you only pay a caterer $10 for breakfast, $15 for lunch, and $20 for dinner. Did I mention that delivery is included? What kind of quality do you think we are getting when the caterers are taking a hit just for doing business with Netjets? Stevies on the West coast is losing big bucks on us. It's not only our food, but the customers food as well that is looking bad.

If you want a good meal you have to order two or three selections at a time, and it is not just for a decent selection, it is to keep from going hungry. If one meal sucks you have a nalternate to get you through to the next leg to order yet another two or three meals.

Yeah great, another bean counter figured out a way to save a few pennies. This business is all about customer care, that was thrown out the window with the new contract. Funny thing is that a bean counter can't figure out that the company really does need to take care of the pilots in order to keep the planes moving. When we start to park them and go get a decent meal then maybe they will figure it out.

We can thank Dick for the food fiasco. Those in the know know whom I am talking about.

Interesting. So who are you throwing under the bus for the domicile debacle?

 

[AA717driver]

Aviation food hasn't been worth a $h!t since TWA and PanAm were the ONLY two U.S. International airlines and the crews got their choice of FC meals.

It seems some of the NJ people are falling into that "we're making so much money the company can afford ANYTHING!" mentality. Ask the UAL and Delta guys how that's working out... (Or ask many corporate departments that switched to frac.)TC

 

[Diesel]

Broke- You obviously haven't read the whole crew food issue on our board. The price point is what the cateriers are pushing for.

Diesel -- compared to what I'm dealing with right now, it is a perk, although it sounds like things aren't as flexible as when you could order anything you wanted. More money, worse food. Maybe something to talk about next contract?

It is not a perk and that mentality is what keeps the crew food quality low because you're just happy its better than where you were. Not that its enough to sustain your health.

There is a mechanism to address legitimate problems with quality that pilots should avail themselves of so that standards are met.

Trust me I know.

 

[CA1900]

It is not a perk and that mentality is what keeps the crew food quality low because you're just happy its better than where you were. Not that its enough to sustain your health.

Oh, believe me, I bitch plenty at my operation about the lack of availability of decent food. I guess I'll have a better idea once I actually get out and flying with you guys. ("Damn, Diesel was right..." will probably come out of my mouth pretty quickly. )

Thanks for the perspective.

 

[Diesel]

I'm not trying to beat you up just trying to show you that crew food is not a perk. You'll have a blast coming here though.

 

[netjetwife]

Issues of personal preference are inherently subjective. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that many pilots considered the NJ pilots' crew meal arrangement better than their own. That is not to say that there is no room for improvement. It just accepts the reality that the company was only concerned with meeting the lower threshold of providing suitable "fuel" for the pilot. Could it be a higher octane/quality--certainly. Does it meet the nutritional requirement--yes. Was the cost savings figured into the higher wages paid in the new CBA--no doubt. We all know that NJA isn't known for their generosity to the pilots...

The meal debate does reinforce to the pilots that their wages must compensate them for their time/labor and their inability to enjoy a meal to their liking in a relaxed atmosphere more conducive to eating that meal--irrespective to what the meal actually is. After all it hardly matters how many stars your meal rates if it is eaten cold, on the go, in a cramped, awkward position. That situation seems to go with the frac turf, so it seems more logical to demand just compensation for a situation that will remain, regardless of the quality of the crew food.

My sympathies to those pilots who don't even have the higher salary to off-set the above frustration. If your group is collecting cards, think of this as food for thought... and send in your card. To the Options pilots-- hold out for wages that balance out the personal sacrifice that you make all day every day that you fly.

 

[172driver]

Back to the topic...

Does Netjets take size of the pilot into consideration when deciding aircraft assignments?

 

[skiandsurf]

Back to the topic...

Does Netjets take size of the pilot into consideration when deciding aircraft assignments?

I know a guy that was hired into the little Beechjet (Hawker 400). After a few hours of IOE the captain "called" someone and had this guy retrain in the 800. He is about 6'3".

I know another guy that hired into the Falcon 2000 that is 6'6" or more.

When they hired me, they gave me a choice of planes and class dates. I wanted an early class date and still got the plane I wanted.

Does this help any?

 

[172driver]

Yes, thank you. I'm a pretty big guy. I'm sure I can get in any of the airplanes but flying a week of 14 hour days in one of the smaller cockpits concerns me a little. Bottom line, I'll fly whatever they want me to fly, but definitely hope for the Falcon or the 800.

Any idea what the recent CMH new hires have been getting?