CO at DEN

[Yuppyguppy]

Hey...UAL and CAL pilots wil have to get along if there is going to be a merger. There is some validity to 10 year UAL furloughees having some say in an integrated list and also those at the bottom of the CAL active list. Nothing is set in stone yet. Stop casting stones and let's try to be fair it it happens. If you've got at least 20+ years left to fly at the new merged company than it will be a good thing...my 2 cents.

 

[eaglesview]

I agree with your points about CAL - it seems like there are poeple trying to get it right but a pilot group needs unity - without it - well you know.

The previous post seemed like UAL pilots advocated such a windfall in a merger attempt. If we do this - let's get it right for all our careers.

Let's just assume that posts here on FI in no way what so ever speak for the United pilot group as a whole. We know what is at stake here just like the CO pilots know.

 

[skywdriver]

Hey...UAL and CAL pilots wil have to get along if there is going to be a merger. There is some validity to 10 year UAL furloughees having some say in an integrated list and also those at the bottom of the CAL active list. Nothing is set in stone yet. Stop casting stones and let's try to be fair it it happens. If you've got at least 20+ years left to fly at the new merged company than it will be a good thing...my 2 cents.

Ok, with that in mind, if there is a merger, there has to be a joint contract obviously. WE currently don't allow jet flying with greater than 50 seats at CAL, what a great opportunity for you United folks to get the scope back that you were robbed of in bankruptcy court. Get rid of all the 70 seat jet flying that is currently under the United Express name, and put a 70-90 seat payscale under the merged company, and all of the sudden all furloughed pilots are back, maybe even some hiring.

Also, I saw some calculations that were done that estimated how much we would have to hire at CAL if we were operating under other legacy carriers' contract rules and it was huge - I want to say the United one was 700-800. All interesting things to think about.

Hope it all works out for all of us.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

You are right about that....all carriers at DEN signed a unique agreement in that the Aiport Authority can tell them to move to another concourse/gates to accomodate another carrier....as long as they are allowed the same number of gates, it's not a big deal.

Is it just me or did anybody else notice that in PHL, Delta also moved our of E...so SWA could have more gates ?

 

[motch]

Many individuals in the MEC and LECs are solid and full of good intent. But the union isn't the leadership, it's all the pilots. And when not a single pilot would stand up at a recent LEC meeting to support a "no-open time pickup if there are furloughs" on the next contract--not now, but some distant time in the future--one has to wonder if the pilots are going to take care of their own.http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#submitComment?R=0900006480a41a09

Densoo..
I was the pilot who seconded the original resolution and it was clear to me that is was being presented to make sure we put protections in the next contract to prevent what you're saying.

Should these things have been put in the Furlough LOA 18 months ago. YES
Should they already be in the C08 Proposal.
Yes

But they are not and therefore we need to make sure they are written in blood for the next contract.
I did not like the answer about the 'No Furlough' clause being the reason that they were not included in C08 proposal.

The reality is, there will always be that @ 5% of a pilot group that doesn't care and is only out for themselves. At CAL... that means about 240 pilots.
Unfortunately, those are the pilots that we must also protect ourselves from.

My question would be this-
What Pilot Group's CBA contains language that prevents;
Vacation sell back, Junior Manning and Rolling Days Off,
While pilots are on Furlough.

Is it legal and if so.. we don't we AND EVERY ALPA CARRIER not have that exact language in our contracts!

motch

 

[densoo]

Densoo..
I was the pilot who seconded the original resolution and it was clear to me that is was being presented to make sure we put protections in the next contract to prevent what you're saying.

Should these things have been put in the Furlough LOA 18 months ago. YES
Should they already be in the C08 Proposal.
Yes

But they are not and therefore we need to make sure they are written in blood for the next contract.
I did not like the answer about the 'No Furlough' clause being the reason that they were not included in C08 proposal.

The reality is, there will always be that @ 5% of a pilot group that doesn't care and is only out for themselves. At CAL... that means about 240 pilots.
Unfortunately, those are the pilots that we must also protect ourselves from.

My question would be this-
What Pilot Group's CBA contains language that prevents;
Vacation sell back, Junior Manning and Rolling Days Off,
While pilots are on Furlough.

Is it legal and if so.. we don't we AND EVERY ALPA CARRIER not have that exact language in our contracts!

motch

Good points all. Thanks for seconding the resolution. I don't think it's a five percent problem, though. A whole generation of pilots flew in the right seats of captains who ran the airline for 20 years. The effect continues way beyond that small group.

 

[Shrek]

Ok, with that in mind, if there is a merger, there has to be a joint contract obviously. WE currently don't allow jet flying with greater than 50 seats at CAL, what a great opportunity for you United folks to get the scope back that you were robbed of in bankruptcy court. Get rid of all the 70 seat jet flying that is currently under the United Express name, and put a 70-90 seat payscale under the merged company, and all of the sudden all furloughed pilots are back, maybe even some hiring.

Also, I saw some calculations that were done that estimated how much we would have to hire at CAL if we were operating under other legacy carriers' contract rules and it was huge - I want to say the United one was 700-800. All interesting things to think about.

Hope it all works out for all of us.

And the cherry on top? - we kill GoJets :beer:

 

[contrail67]

Off the press yesterday and is anyone noticing United's Stock price???

So with the article below...would the narrowbody order REPLACE the parked 737's? We don't need no stinkin c series says Airbus...we will just make our Airbus 20% more efficient....interesting.

CORRECT: United Air CFO: To Decide On New Narrowbody Planes This Year

Font size: A | A | A


10:31 AM ET 3/9/10 | Dow Jones
("=United Air CFO: To Decide On New Narrowbody Planes This Year," at 9:48 a.m. EST, misstated the type of Boeing aircraft in the second paragraph. The correct version follows



By Ann Keeton

Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

CHICAGO (Dow Jones)--United Airlines, a unit of UAL Corp. (UAUA) is "looking at the full range of opportunities" for buying new narrowbody aircraft, and will make a decision this year, Kathryn Mikells, chief financial officer, said Tuesday.

Boeing Co. (BA) and Airbus are considering putting more fuel efficient engines in the 737 and A320, their narrowbody planes, to compete with the Bombardier C-Series, a new aircraft set to enter the market in 2013. New engines and other technology can reduce fuel cost by as much as 20%.

United in December placed an order for 25 of Boeing's larger 787 aircraft, and 25 Airbus A350s, part of its overall plan to modernize its fleet. The first planes won't be delivered until 2016.

Speaking at the J.P. Morgan Aviation, Transportation & Defense Conference, which was webcast, Mikells said United will continue to strengthen its balance sheet, and expects to begin to "throw off free cash" to benefit shareholders, as revenue grows and cost management improves.

Reporting February operating results late Monday, United said passenger revenue rose between 17% and 19% last month, compared with a year ago, the best results among major carriers to report so far.

While business passenger traffic is returning, "we're clearly not back to where we were before," Mikells said. While airlines haven't been able to implement industry fare hikes, "What people don't see is [how we are] improving inventory management," to get higher average fares.

United remains committed to a need for airline industry consolidation, Mikells said.

In an earlier presentation at the conference, Jeff Smisek, chief executive of Continental Airlines Inc. (CAL), said that airline continues to watch its competition--including Delta Air Lines Inc.'s (DAL) recent merger with Northwest Airlines. Smisek said Continental could restart merger talks with United, should the Houston carrier feel a need to "bulk up" to better compete with Delta, now the world's largest airline by passenger traffic.

-By Ann Keeton, Dow Jones Newswires; 312-750-

 

[whatitdoing?]

And the cherry on top? - we kill GoJets :beer:

I say throw in Virgin Amercia too........

 

[ATRCA]

There is no reason to play nice here on FI. Lets face it boys and girls, if these two airlines merge it will be an all out slugfest, it will be ugly, and we will carry animosities for the rest of our careers. I'm ok with it, it's simply the nature of things, to pretend otherwise is either just foolish or more likely implied disingenuous courtesy to improve ones position.................it will be open warfare, better we prepare for it than pretend it's not going to happen. Face the facts and prepare to square off.....

 

[Ben Franklin]

My question would be this-
What Pilot Group's CBA contains language that prevents;
Vacation sell back, Junior Manning and Rolling Days Off,
While pilots are on Furlough.

LOA 49 addresses the vacation, kinda.

The other ideas are solid, but I'll bet the NC will tell you that there are better ways to "make the company pay" if they need to furlough.

Instead of including those types of provisions that you mention above, there could be other language inserted to make furloughs cost-prohibitive.

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[contrail67]

There is no reason to play nice here on FI. Lets face it boys and girls, if these two airlines merge it will be an all out slugfest, it will be ugly, and we will carry animosities for the rest of our careers. I'm ok with it, it's simply the nature of things, to pretend otherwise is either just foolish or more likely implied disingenuous courtesy to improve ones position.................it will be open warfare, better we prepare for it than pretend it's not going to happen. Face the facts and prepare to square off.....

It won't be any worse than the DAL/NWA deal...someone will come out with the short end of the deal...just how it goes.

 

[lookin4better]

And the cherry on top? - we kill GoJets :beer:

Well if the merger happens, get all 70+ seat flying at mainline. Then its a done deal... along with Skywest, Shuttle(RAH..etc), Mesa....it would be a good deal for all in the long run(regionals may furlough in the near term but oh well...people can then apply for jobs at the new merged company once hiring resumes. All those jobs should have been at mainline in the first place.

However, TSA should have got those CR7's on property first, then negotiated, but they chose to play chicken with management and lost....tough. The only way to fix it is take back scope.

...run with it Shrek.

 

[catIIIc]

It won't be any worse than the DAL/NWA deal...someone will come out with the short end of the deal...just how it goes.

Exactly precedence has been set, we both will present our cases and the arbitrators will decide. First things first though the have pay us and tighten up Scope.

 

[contrail67]

Exactly precedence has been set, we both will present our cases and the arbitrators will decide. First things first though the have pay us and tighten up Scope.

NO MERGER ...until EVERYONE IS RECALLED...NO EXCEPTIONS.