CNN reporting a Lear Jet down at Chicago Executive, Wheeling?

[Amish RakeFight]

seems to show the accident site almost directly on final to the runway. I wonder if in the circle to land, they didn't try to tighten it up and "make" the final

again, walking that fine line.....

RIP guys

Sadly, I knew a couple of guys who bought it in a Lear doing the same thing.

 

[OzBushWhacker]

I thought they were cleared to land off a visual??

 

[satpak77]

I thought they were cleared to land off a visual??

I don't know, but my "raised eyebrow" comes from the crash site almost directly on final, and a mile or two from the airport, in other words, landing phase.

 

[StaySeated]

I don't know, but my "raised eyebrow" comes from the crash site almost directly on final, and a mile or two from the airport, in other words, landing phase.

Due to the proximity to KORD, when the winds are out of the north the standard operation at KPWK is to shoot the approach to 16, then cancel IFR and enter left traffic to 34. The crash site is directly lined up with the 34 final, and the aircraft came straight down. Text book base-to-final stall accident at first glance.

 

[satpak77]

newspaper claims crash site was "about a mile" from the airport. FYI

 

[BGSkyGuy]

Due to the proximity to KORD, when the winds are out of the north the standard operation at KPWK is to shoot the approach to 16, then cancel IFR and enter left traffic to 34. The crash site is directly lined up with the 34 final, and the aircraft came straight down. Text book base-to-final stall accident at first glance.

Pure speculation but I agree. A little ice on the airframe and the chances increase. My condolences to families and friends. Godspeed.

 

[Mickey]

My friend saw it pull up and bank hard before it went out of sight over the trees.

 

[nightrider]

I had a few friends that worked there, anyone know the names pm me.

 

[DUATS]

Any circle at minimums will require tight turns at low speed and altitude. Why is PWK any different?
.

1. Because you have to cancel IFR before the circle manuever.

2. Because you need to stay outside the ORD airspace.

 

[Cat3C]

I know we are splitting hairs here but you do not have to cancel IFR to circle. If you do stay IFR (its really ********************ty and the wind is blowing out of the north strong) then you need to let everybody know in advance (prior to going to tower). If the weather is decent then they definitely want you to cancel - no questions about it.

It sucks but lots of other circles suck as well. I will also offer this - there is a bunch of housing on the north and south side of the airport and how/why it was missed is something to mention in prayers. Somethings just cannot be explained.

Forgive me if I am inaccurate but I was under the impression that the weather was pretty good. They probably did pick up a bunch of ice coming over the lake at ORD restricitions for north side satellite airports. They usually have you at 6000 or so at one of the last fixes and then bring you down to 3000 then 2400 for the approach.

In the end it doesn't matter a rats ass because the crew and the aircraft are gone and friends and family have huge holes in their hearts.

 

[BushwickBill]

Something similar happened at TRK about 4 or 5 years ago. To a LR35.

 

[belchfire]

Rest in peace gentlemen.

Prayers and condolences to the families.

 

[satpak77]

updated article

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/...-air-freight-cook-county-forest-preserve.html

 

[bobs98tlr]

When i worked as a line guy in RFD and JVL i saw S. E. all the time in a C310. What an awesome, down to earth cool dude. He will be remembered..RIP

 

[bertengineer]

Sadly, I knew a couple of guys who bought it in a Lear doing the same thing.

out west

 

[Lear70]

Man, words just can't say how much I feel for those families right now.

I think I'll follow a previous poster's advice, wait for the prelim accident data from the FAA, and simply wish the friends, family, and coworkers of those pilots my condolences.

To fly West is the final flight, we all must someday take...

 

[Flying Illini]

(edit: this article was already posted, sorry)

Biographical article about both pilots.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/...-air-freight-cook-county-forest-preserve.html

 

[hawkerflyer]

Can someone explain the requirement of canceling IFR prior to circling ? Is this a PWK thing ? Haven't been into PWK for about 10 years and I can't recall any other towered airports that have such a requirement.
RIP to my fellow freight dogs.

 

[RedGuy]

Funeral arangements can be found here.


http://www.detnews.com/article/20100109/METRO02/1090392/1409/METRO

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Can someone explain the requirement of canceling IFR prior to circling ? Is this a PWK thing ? Haven't been into PWK for about 10 years and I can't recall any other towered airports that have such a requirement.
RIP to my fellow freight dogs.

I don't think they can force you to cancel IFR. But because ORD is so close they won't clear you for the approach otherwise because they can't keep you seperated from ORD traffic and won't make a hole there for you (short of declaring an emergency) the same problem exists with trying to get the straight in instrument approach to 22L at Midway... Never happens without an emergency because it will conflict with ORD.... I ask every time rather than doing that stupid 31C circle to 22L and am denied every time. Won't stop me from asking every time until they quit publishing it but until ORD is completely reconfigured that's the way it will be.

 

[2.71828]

"Why should we shut down? The Captain was a good friend of mine, but I'm ready to go to work. This is a fact of life in this industry. In the 13 years I've been in it I've lost half a dozen friends, just suck it up, learn from their mistakes and keep on going."

RedGuy you must be in management! Anything for a buck, would you take a trip if you learned your daughter/mom just died?...sure just suck it up! loser

 

[Lear70]

"Why should we shut down? The Captain was a good friend of mine, but I'm ready to go to work. This is a fact of life in this industry. In the 13 years I've been in it I've lost half a dozen friends, just suck it up, learn from their mistakes and keep on going."

RedGuy you must be in management! Anything for a buck, would you take a trip if you learned your daughter/mom just died?...sure just suck it up! loser

I think that's a little uncalled for (not a moderator opinion, just my personal opinion). It wasn't a family member that died for the other pilots at Royal, it was two coworkers, even as tragic as that is.

I have had family members pass or personal problems that have required a sick call or a personal leave, totally different thing. I also *HAVE* had coworkers die in plane crashes, people I've known personally, and you go on about your day and do your job and grieve later. By your thought process, when an airline has a crash, the entire airline should shut down for the day? How would that work for Delta? American? Southwest even where the camaraderie is even closer?

If I was at work, had a patient on board, and one of OUR planes went down (God forbid), I'd be getting my patient on to their destination. Yes, it would suck. Yes, it would require putting your personal feelings aside and being a professional. But that's the job. That's what we do.

 

[hvydriver]

I think that's a little uncalled for (not a moderator opinion, just my personal opinion). It wasn't a family member that died for the other pilots at Royal, it was two coworkers, even as tragic as that is.

I have had family members pass or personal problems that have required a sick call or a personal leave, totally different thing. I also *HAVE* had coworkers die in plane crashes, people I've known personally, and you go on about your day and do your job and grieve later. By your thought process, when an airline has a crash, the entire airline should shut down for the day? How would that work for Delta? American? Southwest even where the camaraderie is even closer?

If I was at work, had a patient on board, and one of OUR planes went down (God forbid), I'd be getting my patient on to their destination. Yes, it would suck. Yes, it would require putting your personal feelings aside and being a professional. But that's the job. That's what we do.

Indeed.

 

[RedGuy]

"Why should we shut down? The Captain was a good friend of mine, but I'm ready to go to work. This is a fact of life in this industry. In the 13 years I've been in it I've lost half a dozen friends, just suck it up, learn from their mistakes and keep on going."

RedGuy you must be in management! Anything for a buck, would you take a trip if you learned your daughter/mom just died?...sure just suck it up! loser

I'm not in management you jack hole, you think they have the time right now to post on here? I won't do anything for a buck I made the same last week as if I hadn't flown at all, did you ever think that maybe it has more to do with the fact that I'd rather be doing something other than sit at home and think about it, that maybe keeping busy would help get it off my mind? I didn't think so. Now I remember why I don't frequent this board, while there's lots of good people on here there's too many jerks like you. Obviously you've never had anything like this happen to you and have no good point of view.

 

[hyper]

Brett Favrerera played the day after his father died. Guess he must be a "jack hole".

 

[waka]

"Why should we shut down? The Captain was a good friend of mine, but I'm ready to go to work. This is a fact of life in this industry. In the 13 years I've been in it I've lost half a dozen friends, just suck it up, learn from their mistakes and keep on going."

RedGuy you must be in management! Anything for a buck, would you take a trip if you learned your daughter/mom just died?...sure just suck it up! loser

Yes, your credibility is deafening.

 

[Lear70]

A-N-O-N-Y-M-I-T-Y. This thread was hijacked long before I crawled out from under my rock.
100-1/2

And I'll lock the hijacked thread if you two don't knock it off with the personal attacks.

Back to the thread, if you want to discuss specifics of the Lear's capabilities, that's well within the TOS.

Since I'm now posting as a Mod since I had to play referee, I'm not going to get into a debate with you over the range of a Lear (the "near-jet" is actually a Citation reference from the 1970's) or the practice of stuffing the trunk on approach and what that does to the CG in an empty Lear (it's still in the envelope with a 45 minute reserve in the wings).

There'll be time for recrimination of the operator, IF they're culpable, after the final NTSB report is out, but calling people out individually and attacking them isn't going to fly here, no pun intended. Fair warning.

 

[Quimby]

I don't think they can force you to cancel IFR. But because ORD is so close they won't clear you for the approach otherwise because they can't keep you seperated from ORD traffic and won't make a hole there for you (short of declaring an emergency) the same problem exists with trying to get the straight in instrument approach to 22L at Midway... Never happens without an emergency because it will conflict with ORD.... I ask every time rather than doing that stupid 31C circle to 22L and am denied every time. Won't stop me from asking every time until they quit publishing it but until ORD is completely reconfigured that's the way it will be.

Good god, it's not that hard.

 

[CUBMAN]

100-1/2 I think you pretty much nailed it. Now sit back and take a breather. Your gonna need it on this one.

 

[mdf]

I wish the families some peace, and comfort. I also can't believe some of the ignorance on this thread. I cut my teeth on a 24, and flew the 35 extensively out of PWK. I would never in a million years think to speculate what happened to these guy's because I was not there. Near Jet. Are you kidding me? For me 20/30 series Lear pilots will always be the standard, I know when I am sitting next to one without even asking.

RIP