CMR on the move

[Tomct]

Tell Butrell to stick it where the sun won't shine....The regionals have taken enough of this crap!! Don't let him lead you with that proverbial "Carrot" of new E-170's, you will fall right into his hands and then all of your hard work will be for nothing! Hang tough guys and gals!!

 

[Heavy Set]

Tell Butrell to stick it where the sun won't shine....The regionals have taken enough of this crap!! Don't let him lead you with that proverbial "Carrot" of new E-170's, you will fall right into his hands and then all of your hard work will be for nothing! Hang tough guys and gals!!

Negotiate hard all the way to spinoff!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rabble]

Fugghedabowtit,

You said, "I am a PFT'er from '99." and "Why? Because I thought Comair was a better company overall than the others mentioned"

I'm going to raise the BS flag. You PFT'd in 1999 because you either didn't have the experience required by any other company or because you failed in your attempt to secure employment at any other company.

Nobody chooses to write a $10,000 check on a gamble if they truly have a choice.

You got lucky. You took the easy road and just got lucky.

 

[doh]

I just came back to work today after 11 days off. I talked to one of the MEC reps. He told me that mgmts negotiating team is made up of Oz and some guy from employee relations named Factor, AND Pat Ryan. Now he made a special point of saying Ryan is the top guy in scheduling. Hmm, why would the scheduling guy be there if this is only about a pay freeze? Scheduling would only be important if changes are proposed to our work rules! Stay tuned kiddies, because I am now looking for Mr. Buttrell. I am going to ask him specifically if he is asking for any changes to our work rules or if this is just pay freeze = growth. I'll be nice but this could get interesting...How many more days are you willing to spend on the road? How much are you willing to increase duty time? How much worse a schedule can you take? Time to think about some things!

 

[michael707767]

Stay tuned kiddies, because I am now looking for Mr. Buttrell. I am going to ask him specifically if he is asking for any changes to our work rules or if this is just pay freeze = growth. I'll be nice but this could get interesting...How many more days are you willing to spend on the road? How much are you willing to increase duty time? How much worse a schedule can you take? Time to think about some things!

You know, in the world Buttrell lives in, pay is what your W-2 says at the end of the year. I would not be surprised if a pay freeze to him means you work more to get the same monthly pay check, not a freeze in the pay rate.

 

[doh]

Michael,

Exactly, which is why once we start asking the right questions, I think Phred will stop hanging out in the pilot lounge!

 

[skyslug]

Reading this thread is hilarious but it's getting painful! Geez guys...just sit down, have a Fat Tire and wait for our MEC to do it's work and get back to us. Speculation based on "A captain said he heard..." (third hand information) is going to do more harm than good.

Email your reps or call them if you have specific needs/wants/concerns.

All these "theories" (folks who say they KNOW (what will happen because...)about our future if we don't vote yes/no are a bunch of bunk. We don't know what will happen! yet...

Those who say we'll get the planes anyways (generally described as the 'hard liners')...what magic 8-ball do you derive your accurate and future-vision information from? I respect your passion but tone it down a bit and back your rhetoric up with facts.

Those who say we'll whither up and die a slow and painful death (generally described as the kool aid drinkers) if we don't take managements "proposal" (what ever that may be at the time) just go out and take a breath of fresh air and relax.

Those who say they spoke to Fred and/or members of our union or MEC and can decipher the truth hidden within the negotiations (!) by the way Fred parts his hair or the way an MEC members blows his nose or inflects certain words are really searching for answers. I can't blame you.

These answers (like Mr. Surplus has said in a bazillion words -I enjoy reading your posts by the way and respect your opinion) will come as soon as our MEC and MGT get down to business and negotiate and possibly agree to something we as a pilot group can vote on. Until then we need to keep our bitterness, fears and imagination in check.

 

[surplus1]

Nobody chooses to write a $10,000 check on a gamble if they truly have a choice.

That's an interesting observation that I can't resist.

It's seems to make sense that "nobody chooses to write a $10,000 check on a gamble." Nevertheless there are people on this board that want to write a $10 million dollar check (vote YES) .... based only on the "promises" of a fellow named Fred Buttrell, a fellow that we don't know and who has no track record (except his contributions to the current stagnation of Comair).

Isn't that a much bigger gamble?

You got lucky. You took the easy road and just got lucky.

Are we going to "get lucky" by a hasty "yes" vote and blind acceptance of a "proposal" that is extremely vague and offers no guarantees whatever?

Yes, I know that Buttrell promised we would get 35 different airframes, ten "new" CL65s and 25 "additional" (perhaps replacements, perhaps add on's).

I have to ask, again. Where does Mr. Buttrell get the authority to guarantee new aircraft for Comair? Who will keep the promises that he is making? The aircraft we have are owned by Delta, not by Comair. Any new aircraft will be purchased by Delta, not Comair. Who in Delta is going to back Mr. Buttrell's "proposal" and promises by signing on the dotted line?

If we do get the promised aircraft, who is going to guarantee that Delta Air Lines will not reallocate those aircraft to another DC carrier in the future?

When will those who see this proposal as their "opportunity to upgrade" be able to do so, when they are "frozen" by a 30-month seat lock? Will the opportunity still be there or will it be already filled? Who will fill it?

Smell the coffee guys, there's a lot that's hidden under the table by this "proposal".

I'll give Buttrell credit for one thing. He has found a way to "force" concessionary negotiations on this pilot group. Why? One reason and one reason only ..... a segment of the pilot group is willing to give up our solidarity in exchange for promises made by a stranger that we have no logical reason to trust. A stranger who does not have the power to make good on his promises, without the co-signature of Delta Air Lines.

Anybody have some answers?.

 

[surplus1]

Another question:

If all of Comair pilots are frozen in a 30-month seat lock, which is included in Buttrell's "proposal", who among the coming "new hires" will be available to fill those upgrade vacancies?

If Comair FO's are locked into their seats for 30-months how will they be eligible to bid on the new vacancies? If Comair pilots currently on the list can't bid, will there be "junior manning"? If there is junior manning, who will be "junior"? Will it be those that are here now or will it be those that are coming?

Is there any possibility that it just might be a group of people with "preferential hiring" privileges?

Think out of the box .... please.

 

[737 Pylt]

Another question:

If all of Comair pilots are frozen in a 30-month seat lock, which is included in Buttrell's "proposal", who among the coming "new hires" will be available to fill those upgrade vacancies?

If Comair FO's are locked into their seats for 30-months how will they be eligible to bid on the new vacancies? If Comair pilots currently on the list can't bid, will there be "junior manning"? If there is junior manning, who will be "junior"? Will it be those that are here now or will it be those that are coming?

Is there any possibility that it just might be a group of people with "preferential hiring" privileges?

Think out of the box .... please.

Nice rjdc style of thinking surplus! Please get over yourself. If any furloughees choose to get hired by CMR they would go to the bottom of the seniority list! Your propoganda mentality must have your blood pressure sky high!
737

 

[Rabble]

Personally i'm just stunned that he's comparing pay-for-training with pattern bargaining.

Wow.

 

[surplus1]

Nice rjdc style of thinking surplus! Please get over yourself. If any furloughees choose to get hired by CMR they would go to the bottom of the seniority list! Your propoganda mentality must have your blood pressure sky high!
737

Are you saying you would turn down a left seat if you were drafted into the position because no one else was eligible? You would still be at "the bottom of the list". So are all those USA pilots, sitting in the left seat. What does it matter where you are "on the list" when it has nothing to do with where you sit?

Is what I'm getting from your guy (FB) propaganda or should I believe it's gospel?

 

[ThisistheDream]

A seat wont lock you from upgrading. any Fo that is seat locked is not prevented from upgrading. EXAMPLE a new hire gets hired into the 70 seat FO, they would be locked in that seat for 30 months as an FO. The wouldnt be able to bid for the 50 seat or other FO spots, but they could Bid and get a CA seat in any Aircraft, and when they get that they would be locked there for another 30 months.

 

[surplus1]

A seat wont lock you from upgrading. any Fo that is seat locked is not prevented from upgrading.

Is that a fact or are you just making an assumption?

If it's a fact, what is the source of your information?

 

[ThisistheDream]

I dont know for a fact, but from my previous experince with a seat lock that is how it would work. IF they didnt let anyone upgrade becuase they locked eveyone in thier current seat how would they fill the CA seats for the NEW aircraft? I see what you are trying to say that they would lock us for 30 months and hire others to come in and fly the new aircraft out of seniority etc. That is a whole different ballgame in that situation, which would probally get 100% NO vote if that was how the lock was going to be used. The freeze for 30 months like I have seen before prevents training cost by having ex. an 50 seat FO bid for the 70 seat or vise versa after only a yr or 2 in the seat. I would think that with the seat lock, once you upgrade to what ever plane then you would be seat locked there for 30 months. as far as current 50 seat CA, that would be locked and now with the addition of new 70 seaters i am not sure if they would be seat locked to stay a 50 CA for the 30 months freeze, in this situation usually the 50 Seat CA that was prevented from biding the 70 seat for a seat lock would get 70 seat pay as soon as a junior pilot to them was upgraded in the 70 seater while they still flew the 50 seater that way the company only pays for one training event not two.