CMR on the move

[PositiveRate]

Get the newbies at least 2nd year pay gaurantee and TAKE THIS guys. Don't be stupid. If this is for real, don't let this pass...I left because I thought the hope for something like this was GONE...(and many other reasons).

I say make him shave it!

 

[DDpaysoff]

They will want the non first year pilots to subsidize the 2cd year fo pay. The bottom line is this is business, and they have a number they need to meet. How they do it is up to the negotiators. One way or another this will get done. Non first year guys may have to take a pay cut in order for fo's to get their second year bump, either way the opportunity is there you have to take it. See what MEC says tomorrow, their letter today was exaclty what I expected. They acknowledged the offer and will review the details in tommorows MEC meeting. Stay tuned.
So, preferential hiring to delta furloughs will get done. They won't come in at 23 an hour forever that's for sure.

 

[capt.snitch]

30+ years in the regional industry. Have seen a great deal of growth but at some point, reality has to creep in....
We are not management-we are drivers. We, by our choices, chose toelevate our value beyond the industry's ability to support it. Yes wecarry a great responsibility on our shoulders, but so do bus driversand what do they make? Unless we recognize the razor thin margins thatthe airlines operate under, and take a painful look at the realities oftoday's supply chain, the great majority of "airline" pilots will bechanging careers out of necessity in the future. At some point, we haveto find a way to deal with the here and now and stop living in the"glory days" of commercial aviation. THEY ARE GONE.

 

[N2264J]

If the proposal is agreed to, the guarantee for the Comair team includes:
At least 25 new 70-seaters (hopefully ERJ 170s) and 10 CRJ 200s...I have challenged ALPA and the IBT to agree to our proposal by the third week in February.

Does anyone here remember LOA 46?

Is there any assurance that Comair pilots will actually be flying these planes?

Personally, I wouldn't want to sign on to a pay freeze until we all understand where the Delta furloughees fit into this deal.

 

[P38JLightning]

>>>Personally, I wouldn't want to sign on to a pay freeze until we all understand where the Delta furloughees fit into this deal.<<<


At the bottom of our list, if they choose to take the interview and if Comair management decides to hire them, unless we choose to modify our contract to allow otherwise (not even mentioned, much less in relation to this latest proposal).

And if its the cost of junior pilot attrition to our bottom line you're worried about down the road (i.e. when they get recalled by 2008 or sooner), I don't think we can do much worse than we've been doing the last year or two.

There are limits on what we are willing to negotiate, but if we are to have any hope for the future of our profession, we need these airframes on our property (or ASA's property) and NOT the contract carrier whores who cheerfully underbid us by 10-45%. Immagine being in negotiations in 2006 (or 2007, will it really matter?) with CHQ taking delivery of their 100th DCI 70 seater at our sub 40 seat pay rates.

Carpe Diem.

 

[FDJ2]

Concessions for growth, will the CMR pilots go for it, amd if so, then what about all that rhetoric and vitriol directed to other regional pilots who have done the same?

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Whatever your opinion you have to call your status reps -- and your status rep-elects and give them some direction!

They work for you, after all. You dont want them out there making decisions that might impact your career without finding out what the majority of the group wants to do.

Example: What if you have a status rep who is of the "Heck No" variety? Should he be allowed to kill this based on his personal feelings? Or should he do what his pilots (who elected him...) ask him to do?

What if your status rep says "Heck yes"? Should he be allowed to ratify this based on HIS personal feelings? Or should he do what his pilots (who elected him...) ask him to do?

The membership, hopefully, will have the opportunity to vote.

Personally, I'll have to go along with Positive Rate. When I left Comair I thought I was leaving a company that had seen its best days and was on its way to commuter airline oblivion (alongside PBA, Pilgrim, Westair, Midway etc...) This might be a life-line for you guys. I agree with the others. Waive the freeze for probationary F/Os and jump on this one before it gets away.

 

[doh]

The devil is in the details. I gotta wait to see what the MEC comes up with. Remember, good from far is too often far from good!

 

[P38JLightning]

nice try

FDJ2,

That would be akin to saying the Delta pilots' (who have also griped over the years about "bar lowering") new contract is the same thing. You know that's different. Same thing here.

Comair taking a pay freeze, that still leaves us well above anyone else in DCI and above all others (except Horizon, presently not a whipsaw threat, present codeshare agreement notwithstanding) is not the same thing as others underbidding us by 10-45% specificaly to get our work, and resulting in Comair's orders and options being diverted or cancelled entirely.

Now if we were considering a proposal of, say, CHQ minus 10-45% to get all their future growth, well, then your analogy would be appropriate.

But saying our pay freeze consideration is the same as what the lowballing whores have done is the same as saying the Delta pilots lowered the bar and participated in the race to the bottom. Not true, as they were the highest then and are still the highest overall now, passenger airline rates and overall contract (except for SWA 737 only rates of course) The same thing would be true here, but you already knew that. Just flammin' I'm sure.

 

[doh]

Yeah FDJ2,

That was kinda flamerish, ya gotta admit. We are stuck living in the world after all.

 

[CAPTIANCOOLCAT]

in 2000 would you ever think united pay would be $50 less than southwest for a 737. A pay freeze is still alot better than alot of companies are doing!!!!!

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Concessions for growth, will the CMR pilots go for it, amd if so, then what about all that rhetoric and vitriol directed to other regional pilots who have done the same?

It is the "other regional pilots" who have created this situation with their rediculous contracts.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

All of the sudden, membership ratification has become a big issue here at Comair.

 

[VFR on Top]

I read it that way too. Don't screw over your 1st-year brethren!

 

[FDJ2]

Yeah FDJ2,

That was kinda flamerish, ya gotta admit. We are stuck living in the world after all.

I'm soooo busted! Yeah, I've got to admit it was a little "flamerish", but you have to admit, the CMR pilots are considering a reduction in the book value of their PWA in order to secure growth. So it's not total flame. I mean would you even be considering this concession if it wasn't for the promise of growth? That's a serious question, not flame.

 

[sleeve]

FDJ2,

we probably would not be even considering this, but its the overall picture we have to look at...being stuck as an FO at say Delta with no growth is certainly alot better than being stuck as an FO at Comair with no growth...

we're giving up something for an eventual return on our investment...well we all pray anyway...

 

[StaySeated]

Oh boy, does everyone have a E-170 chubby or what? I can already see some people searching for pictures online so they can get some cool wallpaper of their "new" plane. Goddam are we pathetic. A fricken pay freeze? Why. Answer me that question. What in the world does a one year pay freeze have to do with an order for new aircraft? Does anyone have any idea how much coin a one year pay freeze will save the company? I gurantee you it will not pay for the one day cluster fuk of all cluster fuks. So are you willing to take a one year pay freeze that will not adjust the bottom line one bit just because? Fighter Pilot Freddy wants an answer in three weeks as if the end of the world hinges on a one year pay freeze. Nothing about this whole sales pitch make sense. A longevity freeze on the other hand is a serious chunk of change. I would vote no on the pay freeze because it is meaningless and no on the longevity freeze because it is too much.

 

[Caveman]

I spent way too much time in ops today and some of the details are that new hires would NOT be stuck on 1st year pay. When they reach the 1 year mark they would increase to 2nd year pay and then be frozen. Also, there is a sunset clause in the freeze that cancels it June 2007 when the contract becomes ammendable. The MEC is meeting tomorrow to go over the proposal. Hopefully, we'll get a better idea of the details early next week.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

You guys assume that Comair refusing the last time and them getting snubbed were related. Those airplanes were going to the folks at ASA, Chatsomething, and SkyWest from day one! Look at ASA, no contract extension and still got 25 planes. Of course, SB says ASA would've gotten all of the 45 if ASA had extended (yeah right!).

If Comair says yes and they get the planes, then so be it. But what if Comair says no and they get the planes anyway, just like at ASA? FB knows exactly where and when those birds are going and he is trying to manipulate the Comair employee group through fear to gain the cost reductions. I guess he must need a new boat in the Keys or something. Pilot costs are far too small of a cost in the overall cost structure of an airline to make or break a deal. However, if FB shared his info on all DCI carriers' operating costs compared to Comair and made a case to the MEC, then maybe this deal would be worthwhile. I personally doubt it though.

 

[ThisistheDream]

So when the say 25 more 70 seaters, does that mean they keep the current fleet the same size add 25 new 70 seat aircraft. or does it mean you get 25 new 70 seaters and we quietly get rid of 25 OLD 50 seaters resulting in very little grow and just a aircraft swap from 50 to 70 seaters???