CMR on the move

[FurloughedAgain]

Breaking the Union

There is another consideration. This may be a play to break the union.

Fred no doubt sees the union (ALPA) in a weakened state.

#1. The voting for the MEC leadership is at a stalemate. Both sides of the current LEC are deadlocked and unable to agree, much less communicate with one another.

#2. A former candidate for Captain Rep is challenging the legitimacy of the status-rep elections and asking that they be thrown out.

The union leadership (both MEC and LEC) is weakened. The junior pilots do not feel fairly represented and NONE of the pilots feel as though the leadership is communicating with them.

Fred may see an opportunity to break the union by introducing this proposal. There is already an artificial dividing line tearing the group apart.

This proposal, along with the current MEC circus, just might break the camel's back.

 

[DDpaysoff]

How many new-hires would there be that do NOT turn 1 before June 1? Maybe something can be worked out where a tenative yes is given provided all first year Fo's on the property today get their probaionary $15.00/hr increase. Every new Hire not on the property today would come in at first year pay and stay there until the next strike in 2010.

 

[sleeve]

This was just an initial offering posted for all employees to see. It hasn't gone into any great detail. I agree 1st year Fo's need to get atleast 2nd year pay, but that can all be worked out. it just came out today.. relax everyone... as far as FB attacking while the union is in a chaotic state...well when isn't the union in a chaotic state...FB isn't playing god he is putting an offer out there for us to negotiate....and toi me it sounds like a good offering, my pay will stay at 38.33 and 1.75 perdiem until I upgrade or until the end of the freeze.. big deal...

 

[sleeve]

180-

without growth we'll shrink, this isn't a conspiracy to destroy the Comair pilot group, rape our wives and eat our children... You are probably also one of those guys that think someone passed a magnet near a computer to shut the whole SBS system down...

 

[DDpaysoff]

I heard the Comair MEC will respond this afternoon.

 

[Caveman]

Let all the newhires move to 2nd year pay and I'll consider it. Otherwise, not no, but He11 No!

 

[comrcap]

I've been here for 19 years. I'll miss a 5$ bump in june, but that is better than the time and crap of a protracted fight. It ain't worth it. My rate is still ahead of most 70 seat rates (113.12). More a/c means more routes, better sched...blah blah, you know the drill. I don't think the EMB 170 commands more than the CRJ700. Yes, there will be the "hell no" crowd rearing up, but they are in the minority. We do need to protect the new hires (Again!) so they aren't screwwed in the switches. I would say the group most likely to protest are the middle range Captains. They will not get a raise unless the move to the crj700 or EMB 170. But, if they stay, their schedules should get better. Another wild card is where is the next base!? They can't all stay here in CVG..........Smithers! That BOOB Simpson has done it again! Darned if he didn't push the fRED BUTTrellON!

 

[skyslug]

I agree that first year FO's pay and QOL need to be looked at more thoroughly.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

DDPaysoff said, "Every new Hire not on the property today would come in at first year pay and stay there until the next strike in 2010."

I certainly hope this is sarcasm. (I believe that it is) Anyone with any knowledge of airline history is aware of the damage that a B-scale can cause a pilot group.

(see American "Killer B's")
All or none. You can not screw the guys yet to come and then expect unity moving forward.

 

[Sinca3]

My questions are this:
1) If there is this new bid for flying, why is it no one else has mentioned it to their employees? Atleast not here at ASA....wait I can answer that. ASA has one of the worst most incompetent managment team in the industry.
2) If there is a bid for flying who will decide the winner now that FB isn't head of DCI?
Wait I can answer that too, GG. I mean FB was just a pawn in the whole big game. Just like SB is now and RR was.
3) Wasn't FB the one that mentioned there isn't any room in the market for more 50 seaters? I can see wanting the E-170's but he told a bunch of ASA people that Republic would get them and they did. He said it was too expensive to add a new aircraft type to either ASA or Comair! I heard it straight from his mouth!

 

[Buddro]

Give Comair the 16 EMB 170's that Chautauqua/Republic was awarded a few weeks ago and I bet it would pass 90% - 100%. That should get the CMR folks fired up.

 

[uba757]

I think CMR is the place that I would like to be. I am in the process of interviewing and have made up my mind that If the job is offered I would take it. My problem is that I made almost 3 times first year pay were I am right now. I have enough saved to survive one year at $23.00 an hour but I could never do it for five years. My wife and I just had a baby an that would be just too hard. I COULD SURVIVE with second year pay.

 

[701EV]

Ok let me see if I get this.

ASA is last in everything.

ASA needs to extend their current contract if they want to see any growth.

ASA doesen't give in on the extention.

ASA is awarded 25 CRJ 200 (some might be CRJ700s)

Comair is run like a fine tuned machine( except for Christmas Day)

Comair is asked to give consesions.

Comair doesen't give any consesions.

Comair BAD you don't get any growth.

FAST Foward to TODAY

If Comair will now freeze their current contract for a period of time they will get the EMB-170 and more growth?

Fast Freddy just shot Skippy in the back with that proposal, in regaurds to our negotiations at ASA. It sure seems like Freddy is desperate to get the EMB-170 at Comair. Could it be that Comair does cost less to operate than anyone else, even with those high pilot costs?

I'm not sure which is the right way to go on this. I do belive the ASA pilots would take the Comair contract and run with it.

Does anybody in Delta have any idea what they are doing.

just my 2 cents,

701EV

 

[chperplt]

Where did you read that CMR was getting the EMB-170s?? Fred said he wanted them, but didn't say they were coming.

Calm down a bit...

 

[ProLine4]

If Comair will now freeze their current contract for a period of time they will get the EMB-170 and more growth?

Fast Freddy just shot Skippy in the back with that proposal, in regaurds to our negotiations at ASA. It sure seems like Freddy is desperate to get the EMB-170 at Comair. Could it be that Comair does cost less to operate than anyone else, even with those high pilot costs?

I'm not sure which is the right way to go on this. I do belive the ASA pilots would take the Comair contract and run with it.

Does anybody in Delta have any idea what they are doing.

just my 2 cents,

701EV

Oh man, I can't wait to see how ASA mgmt responds to this! Dangling the growth carrot for "zero net gain", all over again, but this time, it might be occurring at both ASA and Comair. Maybe this explains why guys were told in recurrent to expect 25 airplanes minimum in 2005, and to expect class size to increase to 50 a month. What??? And just months ago the party line was "were only getting 25 airplanes max" ?
Sorry, no thanks. How about we fix the scheduling department first, increase QOL, first year pay, etc, and then address growth for the future. Most pilots here at ASA will not sell out this next contract for the prospect of shiny new airplanes, because it's explicitly clear that DCI has no qualms about awarding what initially appears to be wholly-owned future growth, to non wholly-owned subsidiaries. Good luck Comair.

 

[P38JLightning]

verbage

I agree with caveman and cherplt.

I would stand to benefit greatly from this proposal if it results in the afformentioned aircraft coming to our "airline" (not to mention keeping them off the property of the whore airlines who have already agreed to undercut us by 10-45% in pilot labor costs...and that [their growth] must be stopped by any means necessary IMHO) however there is no way in he!! this will even be considered unless everyone gets longevity raises, at least to year 2.

Once (and if) we ever clear this up, we can discuss the merits of this or whatever else, but there is no way in he!! i will tolerate daming a new hire to 23 bucks an hour for years and years. 35 new airframes would equal 175 upgrades (ballpark) so someone hired today (or 10 months ago even) would be stuck on first year pay for 10 years because they still wouldn't be able to upgrade.

So let's clear up this issue first. If we can't, its DOA.

 

[P38JLightning]

verbage, part II

Oh and we need to clear up the specifics of FB's so called snap back provisions.

Let's say we agree to this, and get one new 50 seater for 2005. Another one for 2006. Another one (this time a single 70 seater) for 2007 and so on. Would this count as "getting the growth airplanes" or will there be a strict timeline, with 100% retropay (plus compounded interest) if we don't get all 35 planes in a reasonable period of time?

 

[Mikes Apartment]

How do you mean 'trade contract for growth'? Doesn't sound like they are giving anything, just freezing what they have.

Does it hurt to be that stupid?

 

[bvt1151]

Just a matter of interest... Rumor has it Fred offered to have his head shaved by senior pilots if we accept.

That's the clincher for me!!!

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Does it hurt to be that stupid?

I don't know!!? Does it hurt to be that big a pri#k?