CMR -700 rumor

[General Lee]

Palerider,


Don't jump all over FDJ2, he is just trying to think about the possibilites. Your DL possibilities, about DCI 100 seaters, are probably not going to happen, though. I do have a couple questions-----Is there anything in Comair's contract that states that they WILL keep certain aircraft? Could there be anything in there that would prevent a transfer of aircraft? I know those are tough questions, and this is a tough time for ALL of us.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

General :

You knew the answer to that question before you asked it. The Delta MEC, though our mutual bargaining agent, prohibits ASA or Comair from entering into contract negotiations with anyone other than our alter ego management facade. So no, neither the ASA, or Comair, pilots have any job protections what so ever thanks to the efforts of our own union.

DCI airplanes can be shuffled at the whim of management and that is exactly how your MEC wants it. All the better to threaten us with and keep our MEC's under your thumb.

This complete denial of our rights of representation is why the RJDC exists.

But, you already know that also.

~~~^~~~

 

[General Lee]

Fins,


Simmer down now, ya hear? Simmer down. I did NOT know the answer, and I am not trying to make light of this situation. You really LOVE to blame Dalpa and everyone on our MEC, when Comair's MEC probably could have done a better job on their own scope issues. SCOPE really is important---and we knew that before--and you guys are learning that NOW.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[T-Gates]

Does CMR have scope protecting the transfer of thier aircraft and flying??

If not this might be a reminder to the pro-RJDC guys how important a solid scope clause is.... The DL pilots know.....

 

[InclusiveScope]

Fins,


Simmer down now, ya hear? Simmer down. I did NOT know the answer, and I am not trying to make light of this situation. You really LOVE to blame Dalpa and everyone on our MEC, when Comair's MEC probably could have done a better job on their own scope issues. SCOPE really is important---and we knew that before--and you guys are learning that NOW.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,
The RJDC agrees with you about scope. I agree with you about scope. "SCOPE really is important". No argument there - we agree. HOWEVER, to have "SCOPE", you have to "own" your flying. ALPA says the ASA and CMR pilots do not "own" any of their flying. How can we "scope" something we don't own? Tell me General, who "own's" DCI flying? Who has the right to "scope" DCI flying?

 

[InclusiveScope]

Does CMR have scope protecting the transfer of thier aircraft and flying??

If not this might be a reminder to the pro-RJDC guys how important a solid scope clause is.... The DL pilots know.....

T-Gates,
The ASA and CMR pilots have scope protecting "ASA and CMR" flying. That is all our bargaining agent says we own. Our bargaining agent says that all DCI flying belongs to Delta pilots. How would you have us "scope" something that our own bargaing agent says doesn't belong to us in the first place? The RJDC agrees that scope is important.

Inclusivescope

PS: Can you define "SOLID" scope language? I don't believe that "SOLID" scope language exists.

 

[General Lee]

Inclusivescope,


We own a PERCENTAGE of our total flying, and as of late you have gotten a larger portion of that. And, thanks to that, we are now closing DFW. An all RJ hub just doesn't work---but your RJDC guys think so. Try to understand this: BUSINESSMEN DON'T LIKE FLYING ON RJs, ESPECIALLY ON LONGER FLIGHTS. Any questions?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[InclusiveScope]

A prominent RJDC supporter told me the other day that Dan Ford heard a rumor that CMR -700s are going to be "diverted" to ASA to cover the SLC and increased ATL flying.

Anyone heard such that can confirm or deny?

I went directly to the source of your rumor and it seems that you have your facts wrong. Dan did not say that the CMR 70 seaters would be diverted to ASA. There is information to suggest that Delta would like to combine the 70 seat fleet. That could be a stand alone MidAtlantic type operation that would be staffed by furloughed Delta pilots. This would not be ASA or CMR, much like MidAtlantic is not ALG,PDT, or PSA.

Why don't you ask the DMEC and ALPA national to disclose all the mainline bargaining positions concening the RJ70. If there is truly a good working relationship between the MECs, you should be able to get an answer to your question. If they are hiding something, you will probably have to wait and see what the answer is.

 

[InclusiveScope]

Inclusivescope,


We own a PERCENTAGE of our total flying, and as of late you have gotten a larger portion of that. And, thanks to that, we are now closing DFW. Any questions?


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,
Either you are ignorant, or you are trying to mislead - I'm not sure which. As far as ALPA is concerned, you "own" all DCI flying. You farmed out a "PERCENTAGE" in your last contract, but you are free to negotiate a new agreement that changes that percentage - either way. You could negotiate a new agreement that allows Delta pilots to fly all DCI flying. In other words, DCI flying is controlled by the Delta PWA - not the ASA and CMR PWAs.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Hold the phone a second there General! Are you making the statement that DFW was closed because of ASA??? Correct me if I am wrong here, but as I have asked a few time here, is it not DAL that assigns routes and airplanes who are put on those routes????? It sound like you are saying that because DAL re-arranged equipment at DFW to ASA, that we sunk the ship?? Please tell me that is not your version.

 

[General Lee]

ATRdrivr,


No, I know it is not the ASA pilots' fault---it is the person who assigned 95% of the flights as RJ flights--especially the long haul 3 or 4 hour flights to the West Coast----when any sane businessman with unlimited money from their own firm would choose a more comfortable AA MD80 with a First Class option. I am not blaming you guys---but there are some RJDC guys that would love unlimted 70 seaters to fly everywhere----and we know what that will lead to---base closures.
I know, I know---the RJDC doesn't want that---they just want the ability to undercut mainline pilots and fly 767s for RJ wages......

My rant is over---and it was NOT directed at you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[InclusiveScope]

ATRdrivr,


No, I know it is not the ASA pilots' fault---it is the person who assigned 95% of the flights as RJ flights--especially the long haul 3 or 4 hour flights to the West Coast----when any sane businessman with unlimited money from their own firm would choose a more comfortable AA MD80 with a First Class option.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Once again General, it is not the RJ's fault. If there had been enough demand to fill the the MD80s, 737s, and 757s at decent yields, the RJs would not have replaced the narrowbodies. However, the demand wasn't there. DFW was a money loser - too much competition. These assets are being re-deployed where they can hopefully be better used. Quit blaming the RJ on everything.

 

[sweptback]

No, I know it is not the ASA pilots' fault---it is the person who assigned 95% of the flights as RJ flights--especially the long haul 3 or 4 hour flights to the West Coast----when any sane businessman with unlimited money from their own firm would choose a more comfortable AA MD80 with a First Class option.

Whoa! From what I heard, the RJ buildup was a last-ditch effort to see if the hub could be profitable. It hasn't been profitable since 2000, and there was a whole lot more mainline there then. And no 9/11 to blame either.

It sucks for me and others that have to move (or worse yet, get laid off), but it's good for Delta. No need to be #3 in a hub market just to maintain a market presence -- mainline or RJ.

 

[ifly4food]

I went directly to the source of your rumor and it seems that you have your facts wrong. Dan did not say that the CMR 70 seaters would be diverted to ASA. There is information to suggest that Delta would like to combine the 70 seat fleet. That could be a stand alone MidAtlantic type operation that would be staffed by furloughed Delta pilots. This would not be ASA or CMR, much like MidAtlantic is not ALG,PDT, or PSA.

Why don't you ask the DMEC and ALPA national to disclose all the mainline bargaining positions concening the RJ70. If there is truly a good working relationship between the MECs, you should be able to get an answer to your question. If they are hiding something, you will probably have to wait and see what the answer is.

Well, "InclusiveScope", I merely passed along what "Fins to the Left" told me the other day in the Bada Bing lounge. Why don't you go ask him instead of attacking me?

 

[bailout]

>>12 in ATL. 11 operational and 1 spare.

19 in SLC. 18 operational and 1 spare.

After that who knows.

701EV<<


Not so fast.. Dont forget about the 7 to be "based" in CVG. Which leaves 5 in ATL.
Obviously no ASA crew base in CVG, but the planes will be based there. Going to rotate crews through ATL, just like they did with the short stint on the ATRs.