CMR -700 rumor

[FlyComAirJets]

It's not a two way street.

While the General frequently accuses those who support the RJDC as willing to fly mainline DAL at a tiny fraction of their current book rate (re: his last post), he sees nothing wrong in DAL pilots flying RJs at a fraction of DCI rates ala Jets4Jobs/Mid Atlantic-style.

Hey, it's a free country and he can be as much a hypocrite as he pleases. My beef isn't with him.

As for the union that has willingly payroll deducted dues from me, including three assessments, over that past two decades plus -- now therein lies the rub.

 

[General Lee]

Fins,


Can you say for a fact that the RJDC won't ask for anything larger than 70 seaters? I have a feeling they will, since the future growth now seems to be in the 100 seat market. We shall see.......



Flycomairjets,

I don't have a beef with you either (unless you are that Lawson character....) As far as the MDA style 70 seaters, if those aircraft REPLACED mainline aircraft, then I would think that OUR GUYS would have first pick on THOSE particular aircraft. I have never said anything about taking your current aircraft. I don't want anyone to lose a job, but I do want those who have (our furloughs) to get back into a cockpit. That seems fair.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins,


Can you say for a fact that the RJDC won't ask for anything larger than 70 seaters? I have a feeling they will, since the future growth now seems to be in the 100 seat market. We shall see.......

General Lee

General:

In your Contract 96, your MEC negotiated 100 seat flying to non-seniority list airlines. The fact of the matter is that the RJDC litigation was filed in time to dispute the changes in CY96 to CY2K scope language.

So no, the RJDC is not after "mainline" equipment. The problem is that your MEC feels that they can keep changing the definition of mainline, even after other ALPA members hold the jobs.

Some LEC's at Delta want to define mainline at 50 seats. So just what do you expect us to do? But then again, what does it matter. Nobody is going to lend Delta money for 100 seat aircraft. Would you?

~~~^~~~

 

[asarjfo]

>>12 in ATL. 11 operational and 1 spare.

19 in SLC. 18 operational and 1 spare.

After that who knows.

701EV<<


Not so fast.. Dont forget about the 7 to be "based" in CVG. Which leaves 5 in ATL.
Obviously no ASA crew base in CVG, but the planes will be based there. Going to rotate crews through ATL, just like they did with the short stint on the ATRs.

So out of the 61 flights ASA will operate out of CVG, 5 700's will do some of the flying? That does not make any sense, since Comair is still flying the 700 into ATL. Where did you get your information?

 

[FlyComAirJets]

FDJ2,

Excellent points, there is indeed a high standard of proof necessary to prevail in a duty of fair representation case. Fortunately the good pilots of DAL won't be populating the jury on this case. To paraphrase the good doctor, those who benefit from an injustice are the last the decry an injustice.

That the RJ fleet has grown over the last few years has been despite flawed scope, not because of it or are you saying that the DAL PWA promotes RJ growth?


Gee Lee,

The answer lies in the very name, the Regional Jet Defense Coalition. That is why you never have and never will see the RJDC advocate taking your seats. But as you just laid out in YOUR LAST POST, you support doing to us the very thing you supposedly detest! Is that what you want us to use, the "REPLACED" Test? There is an intersection of interests looming and I think it would be much better if we work together for a common, beneficial solution. You really don't want us in oppostion, do you?

 

[General Lee]

Flycomairjets,


If Delta were to bring back our furloughs and everyone that was employed prior to 9-11 was employed again, I wouldn't have a beef with the number of 70 seaters you guys fly. Sure, it would be nice for mainline to expand---and maybe it will again. Our CFO---Pulumbo---is a master at getting new aircraft while having bad credit ratings---like he did at TWA when he got them 50 717s and some new 757s. Yes, the outcome at TWA is NOT what I am hoping for, but nevertheless he knows how to do it. I am NOT for any of your guys losing any jobs, and I really just want our guys back in the cockpit. That is my point. After that point is moot, then you can fly your 70 seaters all over---just remember what excess RJs and not enough mainline did to DFW....



Fins,

I don't really know of any of our LECs defining 50 seaters as "mainline"---I haven't seen that at all. I have seen them take offense when we were parking a lot of mainline birds and only getting new 70 seaters, and then DFW goes down the toilet. We could all see that DFW was falling apart--especially when we would hear it form the pax. (oh wait---afellowaviator has two neighbors that love RJs.......) Look, RJs are good for some routes and NOT for others. We just have to find the right mix---and DFW was leaned towards RJs--and it didn't survive.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DDpaysoff]

Flycomairjets,


---and DFW was leaned towards RJs--and it didn't survive.


Bye Bye--General Lee

DFW was leaned toward AA and LUV across town. That is why it didn't survive. Fight battles you can win, that is what they are 'trying' to do. The market "like always" dictated delta to leave, not RJ's. Just take a look at AA's flight schedule out of DFW. 10 flights a day direct to LGA, DCA, 9 to BOS. I think maybe the business traveler would rather have those options than the 3 a day DAL offered during off-peak hours. The shame of it is AA is not satisfied, they got cocky and are going after NY hardcore.
I'm not trying to argue, but there is more to the world than what pilots and planes fly what routes.

 

[ifly4food]

Fins,
Can you say for a fact that the RJDC won't ask for anything larger than 70 seaters? I have a feeling they will, since the future growth now seems to be in the 100 seat market. We shall see.......

General, the RJDC doesn't "ask" for anything at all. They are not trying to "take" your or anyone else's airplanes. They are suing for the ASA and CMR MECs to have the right to sit at the table with your MEC in negotiations with DAL, Inc, our mutual employer.

You disappointed me with the above statement. I expected you to look beyond the hype and crew lounge pundits and know what you're talking about. You seem to have no idea what the issue is really about, and your ignorance is showing.

Flycomairjets,

I don't have a beef with you either (unless you are that Lawson character....) As far as the MDA style 70 seaters, if those aircraft REPLACED mainline aircraft, then I would think that OUR GUYS would have first pick on THOSE particular aircraft. I have never said anything about taking your current aircraft. I don't want anyone to lose a job, but I do want those who have (our furloughs) to get back into a cockpit. That seems fair.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Huh? What did CMR MEC Chairman and Group B1 EVP, J.C. Lawson ever do to you? You're not confusing him with Dan Ford, are you? J.C. is no friend of the RJDC, in fact they have tried coup attempts to recall him and the rest of the CMR MEC twice. Again, you are showing ignorance.

Regarding your statement on the 70 seaters, what's this "our guys" stuff? This "us vs. them" attitude is EXACTLY why we are playing into management's hands! It's called WHIPSAW and it needs to stop.

As for Delta pilots flying "replacement" 70 seaters, you had better call your reps. I don't think your MEC shares your opinion.

Finally, this industry isn't "fair". It's about what you can negotiate and what your seniority can hold. You should know that by now.

 

[ifly4food]

Flycomairjets,


If Delta were to bring back our furloughs and everyone that was employed prior to 9-11 was employed again, I wouldn't have a beef with the number of 70 seaters you guys fly. Sure, it would be nice for mainline to expand---and maybe it will again. Our CFO---Pulumbo---is a master at getting new aircraft while having bad credit ratings---like he did at TWA when he got them 50 717s and some new 757s. Yes, the outcome at TWA is NOT what I am hoping for, but nevertheless he knows how to do it. I am NOT for any of your guys losing any jobs, and I really just want our guys back in the cockpit. That is my point. After that point is moot, then you can fly your 70 seaters all over---just remember what excess RJs and not enough mainline did to DFW....



Fins,

I don't really know of any of our LECs defining 50 seaters as "mainline"---I haven't seen that at all. I have seen them take offense when we were parking a lot of mainline birds and only getting new 70 seaters, and then DFW goes down the toilet. We could all see that DFW was falling apart--especially when we would hear it form the pax. (oh wait---afellowaviator has two neighbors that love RJs.......) Look, RJs are good for some routes and NOT for others. We just have to find the right mix---and DFW was leaned towards RJs--and it didn't survive.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General, if you think DFW was viable when mainline pulled out and the RJs moved in last March, please pass the crack you're smoking. The RJs moved in as a last ditch effort to save DFW by attempting to fill airplanes, something "mainline" aircraft couldn't do. Remember, the RJ has a much higher seat mile cost than a "mainline" a/c, which can only be offset by flying high load factors.

Why else would Delta have moved mainline out? I know, just to spite the DMEC, right? Intentionally cause the failure of the DFW hub out of spite? Is this really what you're saying?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Huh? What did CMR MEC Chairman and Group B1 EVP, J.C. Lawson ever do to you? You're not confusing him with Dan Ford, are you? J.C. is no friend of the RJDC, in fact they have tried coup attempts to recall him and the rest of the CMR MEC twice...

Jeesh - a lot gets attributed to the RJDC that they had nothing to do with. As luck would have it, the CMR FO Rep that started the recall effort cornered Dan Ford in ATL in the ramper's break room behind the smoking lounge under C while I was standing there. The FO Rep courted Dan and wanted RJDC support for what he was trying to accomplish. Dan Ford flat out told him that the RJDC would remain clear of any local politics.

I can say, as a matter of policy, the RJDC has no interest in undermining our local leadership. To the contrary, we need strong leadership and the RJDC's efforts to obtain equal representation would provide that leadership with the actual ability to represent their constituencies.

There are times when RJDC members, who are also ALPA members, make representational requests ( as is appropriate ) to their local Status Representatives. That is the ALPA representational structure and we support its function. Unfortunately, our Status Reps have gotten used to hearing "no" from ALPA National to the point that are tacitly accepting ALPA's bad faith bargaining and cowering to budget pressure applied by ALPA National. None the less, ASA has really good local representation in ATL and allthough they may get tired of our requests that they participate in Delta bargaining that effects our wages and working conditions - it is still appropriate for me to make requests through my status reps.

When Fred Buttrell makes statements about "realigning 70 seat aircraft" the Connection MECs should follow up. Scope is the issue in ASA's contract negotiations and we should have a spot at the negotiation table now that Delta is in the process of negotiating scope.

The RJDC's fight over representational rights and obligations is with ALPA National. It just isn't a local issue. Really it does not matter who our local leadership is - John Malone is calling the shots on my job security and career.

And that, my friend, is why the RJDC has no interest in local politics.

~~~^~~~

P.S. I'm sure you can understand why I don't want this guy deciding my fate....

MEC Chairman – Capt. John J. Malone​

Captain John Malone, a Dallas-based MD-88 pilot, has held key union positions since being hired by Delta in 1988. He chaired the Negotiating Committee for the “Contract 2000” talks, which resulted in an industry leading pilot agreement in June 2001. ​

Contract 2000 accomplished:​

Roll back in seat limits for my flying from 120 to 50 ( with a limited number of CRJ700's grandfathered in )​

Economic restrictions on the use of my aircraft between cities​

Economic restrictions on the use of my aircraft on stage lengths​

and guaranteed provisions that would stop "Connection" pilots from ever being able to out vote the current ALPA leadership.​

This was sold to Delta pilots as "job protections" which it was not. Clearly - over 1,000 Delta pilots were furloughed while ASA and Comair continued to hire. The Delats pilots should have held their leadership accountable for at best a failed scope policy and at worst a scope policy designed more to keep Duane Woerth in his job than Delta pilots in theirs.​