CL-601 down in Montrose, CO

[justApilot]

We may have lost a few of our own today and I just wanted to put the kabash on the training contract/PFT trash talking that tends to take over serious threads.

 

[Frac Daddy]

No, the accident Gulfstream aircraft at Aspen a couple years ago was from a charter company at Van Nuys....or Burbank. Can't remember which. In either event, different company.

AvJet in KBUR.

By the way, were there any PIREPS at MTJ around the time of the CL accident?

 

[FN FAL]

Well, we'll find out soon enough what the cause was. Perhaps a contaminated runway; here is the weather for 1259Z to 1626Z at KMTJ today:

(The weather appeared to changing rapidly as the automated station put out new weather 22 times in about 3.5 hours. According to the station, it snowed continously through the time period and never got above the melting point.)

KMTJ 281626Z AUTO 32006KT 1 3/4SM -SN BR BKN006 OVC013 M02/M02 A2966 RMK AO2 P0000 FZRANO
KMTJ 281617Z AUTO 31005KT 1SM -SN BR BKN006 OVC017 M01/M02 A2965 RMK AO2 P0000 FZRANO
KMTJ 281606Z AUTO 31005KT 1 3/4SM -SN BR BKN006 OVC017 M02/M02 A2964 RMK AO2 P0000 FZRANO
KMTJ 281601Z AUTO 30007KT 1 1/4SM -SN BR BKN008 OVC017 M01/M02 A2964 RMK AO2 P0000 FZRANO
KMTJ 281553Z AUTO 32005KT 1SM -SN BR BKN010 OVC017 M02/M02 A2964 RMK AO2 SLP032 P0001 T10171022 FZRANO
KMTJ 281543Z AUTO 34007KT 1 1/2SM -SN BR BKN014 M01/M02 A2962 RMK AO2 P0001 FZRANO
KMTJ 281541Z AUTO 35007KT 1 3/4SM -SN BR OVC016 M01/M02 A2962 RMK AO2 P0000 FZRANO
KMTJ 281511Z AUTO 33004KT 5SM -SN BR BKN021 OVC038 M01/M02 A2962 RMK AO2 P0000 FZRANO
KMTJ 281504Z AUTO 33004KT 3SM -SN BR BKN014 OVC026 M02/M02 A2961 RMK AO2 P0000 FZRANO
KMTJ 281501Z AUTO 32004KT 1 3/4SM -SN BR BKN014 OVC026 M02/M02 A2962 RMK AO2 P0000 FZRANO
KMTJ 281456Z AUTO 32005KT 1SM -SN BR BKN010 OVC026 M02/M02 A2961 RMK AO2 P0000 FZRANO
KMTJ 281453Z AUTO 32005KT 3/4SM -SN BR BKN008 OVC026 M02/M02 A2962 RMK AO2 SLP025 P0001 60004 T10171022 51022 FZRANO
KMTJ 281446Z AUTO 32007KT 1SM -SN BR BKN006 OVC026 M02/M02 A2961 RMK AO2 P0001 FZRANO
KMTJ 281440Z AUTO 33007KT 1 1/4SM -SN BR SCT006 OVC026 M02/M02 A2961 RMK AO2 P0001 FZRANO
KMTJ 281433Z AUTO 33007KT 3/4SM -SN BR BKN006 BKN017 OVC028 M02/M02 A2961 RMK AO2 P0001 FZRANO
KMTJ 281423Z AUTO 33007KT 1SM -SN BR BKN006 BKN017 OVC024 M02/M02 A2961 RMK AO2 P0000 FZRANO
KMTJ 281416Z AUTO 32006KT 1 1/4SM -SN BR BKN006 BKN018 OVC030 M02/M02 A2961 RMK AO2 P0000 FZRANO
KMTJ 281413Z AUTO 32007KT 1 1/2SM -SN BR SCT010 BKN023 OVC030 M02/M02 A2960 RMK AO2 P0000 FZRANO
KMTJ 281403Z AUTO 32007KT 2 1/2SM -SN BR FEW008 BKN018 OVC032 M02/M02 A2960 RMK AO2 P0000 FZRANO
KMTJ 281353Z AUTO 31007KT 4SM -SN BR SCT008 BKN017 OVC032 M02/M02 A2959 RMK AO2 SLP020 P0001 T10171022 FZRANO
KMTJ 281330Z AUTO 32009KT 3SM -SN BR FEW006 BKN015 OVC026 M01/M02 A2958 RMK AO2 P0001 FZRANO
KMTJ 281322Z AUTO 32007KT 2SM -SN BR FEW006 BKN011 OVC018 M01/M02 A2957 RMK AO2 P0001 FZRANO
KMTJ 281311Z AUTO 32009KT 2SM -SN BR FEW005 SCT009 OVC016 M01/M02 A2957 RMK AO2 P0000 FZRANO
KMTJ 281307Z AUTO 33008KT 1 3/4SM -SN BR BKN007 OVC016 M01/M02 A2957 RMK AO2 P0000 FZRANO
KMTJ 281259Z AUTO 33008KT 2SM -SN BR BKN005 BKN009 OVC016 M01/M02 A2956 RMK AO2 P0000 FZRANO

Dude, that's the scroll and paste weather for the airport I fly a caravan into all winter long...no shizzle. Add in some 1/4 mile vis and some of this and some of that and you almost have a clone of my whole season. Did you know the ski hills in the town I go to dont need snow making machines?

Unless you got some braking action reports or Notam'd MU stuff and some "hold over" times...this weather in my book is legal for approach and departure...and very much a fact of life for those of us who "fly for a living".

I know that some corporate flight departments have a policy "not to go" when it excedes their chief pilots grundy factor...but I don't see nothing here that would have caused a pilot to crash his plane.

Maybe this time it IS mechanical? Hmmm...FN says it's a mechanical for a change? Wazzup wit dat?

 

[joe_pilot]

The most important thing to remember is that people have died. My thoughts are with their families and friends first and foremost.



PFT: Ok, technically this might be buying a job, but look at their minimum requirements. Asking someone with 2500/1500 and 1000 PIC ME is VASTLY different than having a commercial MEL, 50 or so PIC MEL and 250 SIC turbine!!



I’m not even going to get into whether or not the latter should occur. I’m just saying that in relative terms an applicant that they are looking for probably has some fairly decent decision making skills. In fact they would have significantly more time than any regional that I know of is asking for!



I think that, along with the fact that, once again – fellow pilots have DIED, makes the PFT issue, in this thread, both invalid and more importantly, inappropriate.



-J

 

[User546]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/29/ebersol.crash.ap/index.html

CNN is reporting that the Challenger is a 18-19 seat aircraft.

I didn't think the Challenger's seated that many people. Is this true or just another media blunder?

 

[goofyleftwich]

correct me if I am wrong, but the plane is certified for 18 or 19. My guess is that the typical seating configuration is 10-12

 

[GIVDrvr]

CL-60 down in Colo

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp
[size=-1]



The 18-seat charter jet with six people on board crashed Sunday morning at Montrose Regional Airport in southwest Colorado, not far from the Telluride Ski Area. A heavy snowstorm had lightened up before the plane prepared to depart for South Bend, Ind., where Ebersol's son Charles is a senior at the University of Notre Dame.



A witness said the impact ripped the cockpit from the fuselage, and that Charles Ebersol helped his 57-year-old father to safety through the front of the plane.



A second son, 14-year-old Edward, was missing, Denver NBC affiliate KUSA-TV reported. The station said crews searched by helicopter and on the ground, but that even "Teddy" Ebersol's plane seat could not be found. A Montrose County Sheriff's spokeswoman said the boy had not been located by late Sunday.

The [/size]l=story2&u=/ap/20041129/ap_on_re_us/jet_crash

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Are you sure. Do you know the name of the crew? Was there a flight attendant aboard?

Ace

 

[Publishers]

Wonder if they were deiced anywhere, whether they had landed for a pickup or had been there overnight?

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Good question. Wasn't that Challenger accident on takeoff out of England due to frost / ice on the wing?