civil air patrol

[phantomdriver]

Is there any any info about the civil air patrol unit in norman, OK. Im thinking of joining but I just want as much info as i can before I join.

 

[CitationXDriver]

You mean Children At Play?

 

[Metro752]

That's a crappy rip acronym for CAP.

More like "Come and Pay"

 

[Geronimo4497]

I'm sure I'll catch flakk for this, but I always liked "Swivel Chair Patrol".

 

[Gulfstream 200]

They may do push ups in front of C152's in dorky outfits but its sure a heck of a lot better than selling crack or stealing cars.....




I think.

 

[mccube5]

so i take it impressions of the CAP aren't so hot.

i was looking into them a while back, but never attended a meeting. anyone who wants to respond seriously, any serious information about what being a memeber really entails?

 

[celloman]

When I was in Flight School in Norman. At a flight school that now I hear is closed the CAP was in the next building over. They seemed "civil" enough. A very active youth program. As for the flying portion of it.... I dont know much. They do have a 172 that has a nice paint job and they keep VERY clean! ( I guess if you dont fly it at least you can wash and wax it)


Hope this helps.

 

[Metro752]

its all on their website

 

[JonJohn82]

I hear them doing drill or whatever in the evenings.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

I had alot of respect for the CAP until they started surveillance flights.

 

[phantomdriver]

what types of surveillance flights do they do.

 

[BD King]

Forget it.

www.bdkingpress.com

 

[SlipAway]

I don't know anything about the Norman, OK, unit, but if you are a private pilot or above and want to log cheap or free hours in nicely equipped and maintained airplanes, the CAP is a good way to go. I've probably got 150 hours in their Skyhawks and Skylanes. They all have nice avionics and a GPS, and are good for IFR proficiency flights.

Negatives include:

1. a fair number of bureaucratic hoops to jump through (not too much, though)
2. dorky uniform requirement while flying
3. some members who have no real military experience try to make up for it by nagging you about things such as the "proper shoes to wear with your uniform," etc.

Overall, a good way to help yourself (logging time) and perhaps help someone else one day (looking for downed pilots, helping measure flood damage, etc.).

 

[JCJ]

Cap

We have pretty good airplanes, including some G1000 equipped C182's. In my state, we charge $20/hr dry for 172's and $25/hr dry for 182's for personally funded proficiency flying. Most mission flying we do is fully funded by other agencies, such as USAF.

We also have a cadet program for teenagers that is military-oriented and somewhat rigorous. It is not for everyone.

We are not a military service - we are a federally chartered community servcie organization (charter similar to that of the American Red Cross). We have a few members who think that we're a military service, but we try to correct that misunderstanding. We are heavily supported by the USAF, and many of our activities are tasked to us by the USAF. When we are doing things tasked to us by the USAF, we have status as the auxiliary of the USAF.

You must wear a uniform to fly our airplanes, but usually that's a blue golf shirt and grey dockers. A few choose to wear the USAF uniform, but most do not. If you choose to wear the USAF uniform, you will be expected to wear it exactly to USAF standards (their rule, not ours).

Most of our flying is Search and Rescue (practice or actual, including ELT hunts and actual overdue aircraft), aerial photography, proficiency flying and flying cadets (teenagers) - they have a multi-sortie flight orientation syllabus as part of their program.

Our crews took over a thousand aerial photos of Hurricane Katrina damage for various government, military and relief agencies, some of which were relayed via satellite to the ground from in-flight in real time.

In the 9/11 terrorist attacks, our aircraft in New York were the first to take aerial photos of ground zero for the NY emergency mamagement authorities. Other than the military, we were the only major agency flying (transporting blood, supplies, key personnel, etc)

WE DO NOT DO SURVEILLANCE. We do a few things that could be considered passive support of Law Enforcement agencies, but we are not a Law Enforcement agency and do not actively participate in Law Enforcement.

Private pilots are welcome to fly with us, and many have gotten advanced ratings with us. We have more stringent safety requirements (annual checkrides, required safety meetings, etc) than routine general aviation.

We are always looking for new members, especially pilots. If you are interested, PM me and i'll get you in touch with someone from Oklahoma

or check www.cap.gov

 

[Huggyu2]

PhantomDriver,
Um, let me think... I don't know.

 

[CitationXDriver]

Back when I was a wee lad, I was in the CAP Cadet program, ie the portion of CAP for teenagers. I did this to help my application to the US Air Force Academy. What I found was a bunch of pompus ass, power tripping, and I got more rank than you jerks. The Senior members, ie the adults, wanted nothing to do with the Cadets and when senior members did show their faces, they had the same worship the ground I walk on attitude. This was in a Rocky Mountain state where there were many opportunities for search and rescue operations. Many of the local counties had there own search and rescue teams and it was common knowledge that there policy's forbid using the CAP for any search and rescue operations due to lack of professionalism etc. This was 15 years ago, I dont think things have changed much there but I am sure it all depends on where you are at. I know a few years ago there was an ELT going off at a local airport and the CAP showed up looking for it. They narrowed it down to a Hawker, which belonged to a large fractional, that was sitting on the ramp for the night. Despite the objection of the line guys, the CAP members broke out the tool box and started opening random panels on the Hawker. Luckily a quick thinking line guy got the Maintenance Department for said fractional on the phone, which then proceded to chew some CAP ass and come back for seconds. The plane had to be put back together and inspected by a mechanic. These are all personal experiences, I am sure locations vary, but I say stay away.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

really? opening up panels on the a/c??

that CAP tool would have been in jail if that was my a/c!

jeeesh..

 

[BRIGADEAVIATOR]

I gave it a shot in late 01, and all i could say is it was a joke. This is in Socal mind you, most of the people in there were just dorks, and like someone said earlier power trippers. I first got in to it for the "flying opportunities" but later realized it was a waste of time with the hoops and runaround i got. To me it seemed like bunch of guys who were retired, wanted to get away from the wife, or couldn't get a date (reminded me of napoleon dynamite's brother). Don't mean to be so harsh, maybe its better in your neck of the woods. Best of luck with your decision though!

 

[typhoonpilot]

Double post

 

[typhoonpilot]

Phantomdriver:

Don't let the naysayers stop you from doing your own investigation. Civil Air Patrol, like any organization, has it's problems. Those can be overcome and it is possible to pursue whatever goals you may have with the organization. They have many areas of interest, one of which is flying search and rescue or other missions.

There are roadblocks in Civil Air Patrol. As some have already said; there is stifling bureacracy, pompous individuals on a power trip, etc. That can all be side-stepped if you have a little perserverance.

Some squadrons are notoriously difficult to break into. They guard their airplane and are not welcoming to outsiders, Squadron 80 in San Jose, Ca comes to mind as one that fits that description ( circa 1987 ). The composite squadron in Bedford, MA ( circa 1989 ) was the opposite, very welcoming and easy to start flying their airplane.

If you are lucky the squadron in Norman is the latter. You need to go to a few meetings and get a feel for how welcoming and supportive they will be. There is no obligation to join right away. Just go to the meetings first and make up your own mind.

For what is is worth, the CAP search and rescue flying is some of the best single-engine flying I have ever done.


Typhoonpilot

CAP member since 1979

P.S. Great post JCJ

 

[polysciguy9]

This may not be a concern for you, but I visited a CAP unit and attended a meeting in Florida. I was turned off by the religiousness of the unit. Since most of the youth members were sponsored by a church, I felt more like I was at a revival than a search and rescue operation. That and most of the senior members were pretty far on the conservative end of things. I imagine this is pretty common.

That aside, most CAP members I've ever known have turned out to be real tools. Proud of their uniforms, though.

 

[Swede]

I guess my experience (youth CAP) was totally different. We had a good bunch of guys, were proud of our uniforms, and had a lot of fun. It was slightly dorky, but no more than Boy Scouts - why go camping, learn to tie knots, or skin rabbits for an acorn stew, when you can learn to fly and hang out with pilots and their airplanes?

We had a WW2 B-24 pilot who came in and taught us naviagation and told some cool stories to boot. Only had one or two tools in a squadron of about 20, and they were effectively ignored, or mocked as necessary.

This is going to seem impossible or maybe ridiculous, but I directly credit my CAP experience with success in UPT and a career in USAF fighters. I'd say give it a try... it's not like you are enlisting. You can bail at any time.

 

[Icelandair]

Its a good program, especially for youths. Sure the uniforms are dorky, but like the scouts it teaches kids discipline and responsiblity. My children will probably end up joining it one day.

 

[LAXSaabdude]

I know a few years ago there was an ELT going off at a local airport and the CAP showed up looking for it. They narrowed it down to a Hawker, which belonged to a large fractional, that was sitting on the ramp for the night. Despite the objection of the line guys, the CAP members broke out the tool box and started opening random panels on the Hawker. Luckily a quick thinking line guy got the Maintenance Department for said fractional on the phone, which then proceded to chew some CAP ass and come back for seconds. The plane had to be put back together and inspected by a mechanic. These are all personal experiences, I am sure locations vary, but I say stay away.

Had a sort of similar situation (not quite as dramatic) a few years ago. I got called out to the airport from the hotel late one night, apparently the ELT had gone off when we had landed (not my leg ). I got out to the airplane to try to shut it off, and there is a CAP guy on site "supervising" the whole event. For some reason, the "Reset" switch wasn't operating.

I got on the phone to MOC to try to get some more ideas on how to shut the thing off, and they said that they would have to roadtrip MX out to the airplane. As I am having a rather detailed conversation with MOC, I mention that they may want to bring a new battery with them, as the ELT had been going off for a couple of hours now. As soon as I said that, the "Colonel" breathing down my neck interrupted my important conversation with - MY COMPANY - and shouted out over my voice "Oh, yeah, they DEFINITELY need to bring a battery up here!"

YMMV, but there definitely seems to be a little "irrational exuberance" from some of these guys.

LAXSaabdude.

 

[TR4A]

Most mission flying we do is fully funded by other agencies, such as USAF.

We are heavily supported by the USAF, and many of our activities are tasked to us by the USAF. When we are doing things tasked to us by the USAF, we have status as the auxiliary of the USAF.

The CAP is the USAF's Axillary. The CAP's money, aircraft come from the Air Force's budget.

 

[Icelandair]

One downside to the CAP adult program is that, like with all other volunteer organizations, theres a lot of the whole "all cheifs and no indians" syndrome. We had a guy once go up to a Lt. in the real air force and since he was a captain in CAP he demanded a salute. Another guy thought he knew everything about drill in the military because he drilled with axes in the fire department for parades.

 

[JCJ]

The CAP is the USAF's Axillary. The CAP's money, aircraft come from the Air Force's budget.

Well, sorta... Not to get too crazy about it, but there are things about CAP & its relationship with the USAF that are still hotly debated by the lawyers, even though the organization is over 60 years old.

There is federal legislation establishing CAP as a federally chartered non-profit corporation and other federal legislation establishing it as the auxiliary of the USAF. Wing and Region Commanders are actually corprorate officers of CAP (the corporation), as are several of the national staff.

Although we are the Auxiliary of the USAF, we are not a part of DOD and not a military service.

Most of what we actually do is in the capacity of the USAF Auxiliary, but we also have a lot of things we do (including some of our flying missions) as a Corporate (non-USAF Auxiliary) entity.

Our aircraft and other equipment are owned by the Corporation, but are provided to the Corporation through funding provided by the SECAF (another federal law specifically authorizes this arrangement). A substantial portion of our budget is from (or flows through) the USAF, but we also have a separate corporate budget and funding from sources other than the USAF.

Now maybe you understand why we have so many lawyers.

About the dorks, they drive us nuts too. They are in the minority and we try to keep them under control or steer them elsewhere. Unfortunately, they stick out like sore thumbs. As pointed out, this also varies alot with the locality.

The majority of us are just pilots or other people who want to do something we think is fun, and serves the community.

It's not for everyone, but for many of us it's great flying and alot of fun.

 

[RichardRambone]

I was a CAP cadet commander in High School and I loved my squadron in KC. I had some of the best times with other cadets there but mostly all of it was b/c we had a great squadron commander (senior member). After he left, the squadron fell apart and I bailed. CAP is a blast but yes there are lot of dorks, some cool people, some real leaders, and the occasional juvenile delenquient sent to us for discipline. I rarely if ever flew but we went on several "jerk made a hard landing, set off ELT" missions at 3 in the morning. Its a pay to play organization where yes there are a lot of people who want to play military but not join kind of dorks. I say go to a few meetings and get a feel for it. Again some great times were had in CAP.

 

[PC12Cowboy]

The unit is really good in norman , just go to the meeting and ask for tom eastman he was great in getting me involved in the squadron while I was TDY at Airman from California. Their 172 when
I was there was 15 dollars an hour dry and I used it to complete my long night X/c for commercial at 1/3 the cost that Airman wanted.
It is a good program and getting involved in the cadet side is very rewarding

 

[TR4A]

Well, sorta... Not to get too crazy about it, but there are things about CAP & its relationship with the USAF that are still hotly debated by the lawyers, even though the organization is over 60 years old.

I spent 12 years working with the CAP as a USAF Reserve Assistance Officer and Wing Reserve Coordinator in three wings. The vast majority of the CAP's funding comes from Congress through the AF's budget. FY2004 amount was $31.4 million. The CAP receives state funding also. Fy2004 was $2.8 million. When you are flying other missions for other agencies such as DEA and US Forest Service your flights are funded by them.

On July 1, 1946, President Truman established CAP as a federally chartered benevolent civilian corporation, and Congress passed Public Law 557 on May 26, 1948, which made CAP the auxiliary of the new U.S. Air Force.​