Citationshares lets 30 go

[airjackson]

I highly doubt that he is the only one on here that feels a few elder gentlemen have overstayed their welcome at their respective airline/fractional. Hell, my dad is one of em..retired airline and now frac captain. I see both sides of the argument. If you were just thrown by the wayside like so many have lately, you might understand JUNIOR's frustration. By the way, my dad is the best pilot on earth..for an old guy!

These elder pilots certainly have the right to stay as long as they wish. However, consider this aspect as well.
I recently had a conversation with a Capt. who had gone through recurrent with one of these "elder" fellows, also a Capt. he said that the guy crashed the sim three times DURING THE CHECKRIDE and still passed. Perhaps there needs to be a better balance between wanting to get guys through checkrides while at the same time, fairly evaluating their abilities to continue in their present position.
just something to chew on...

 

[FR8DOG777]

I look at the traffic numbers everyday for certain airports and compared to 2007. Obviously something is going to have to give because there has been a tremendous decline. Ironically in the study, fractional percentage has stayed the same of the declining total.
Secondly, a company is there to make a profit not to employ people. Management is not there to employ but to manage the assets of the company. Many earn their money in tough times but get paid more for the good times.
A reduction is coming at all these companies..

Way to armchair quarterback the plays as yous sees em pubyhairs. You are either a mom and pops operator thinkling you're bigtime or a union buster. Either way stick to what you know best,,,,jack schit.

 

[Sparse]

I am not a kool-aide drinker, but I think we have to hand it to CS flightops managment for how they have handled a difficult situation. The furlough is being driven by higher ups, way higher than 5 American Lane. The company hired in anticipation of deliveries and they didn't happen. The company, off the record, did not want to do this, but was forced to. In light of the fact that we just went to a seniority system, they handled the reduction, just as they should have. If we had had a contract, I don't think it would have been done any differently. They have offerred some pretty generous incentives to those who may want to take an extended vacation, or retire now rather than a year from now, that might mitigate some of the job cuts. Sr. VP of Flt Ops is making the best of a terrible situation. The CS pilots are stepping up to the plate and setting up a furlough relief fund. Let's hope this is short lived and the whole industry recovers and the rich folks come back.

 

[hyflyin]

I am not a kool-aide drinker, but I think we have to hand it to CS flightops management for how they have handled a difficult situation. The furlough is being driven by higher ups, way higher than 5 American Lane. The company hired in anticipation of deliveries and they didn't happen. The company, off the record, did not want to do this, but was forced to. In light of the fact that we just went to a seniority system, they handled the reduction, just as they should have. If we had had a contract, I don't think it would have been done any differently. They have offered some pretty generous incentives to those who may want to take an extended vacation, or retire now rather than a year from now, that might mitigate some of the job cuts. Sr. VP of Flt Ops is making the best of a terrible situation. The CS pilots are stepping up to the plate and setting up a furlough relief fund. Let's hope this is short lived and the whole industry recovers and the rich folks come back.

When the fund is set up please post that address. I would be happy to throw some cash the way of the CS group.

Some thoughts on furloughs. I think we have seen furloughs at frac companies for anticipated deliveries. As for NJA, we have run a hiring deficit for at least 2 yrs now. Last year they only managed to hire 50% of the amount they wanted because of availability of training slots. If we were to furlough, lets remember the fact that we have 8 a/c types. Can you imagine the training costs? Can you imagine what will happen when the economy recovers?? Training, hiring, re-training would be impossible. Furloughs here are not a short term answer. As stated by Christensen and Jacobs, we have weathered 3 recessions and never furloughed. We will weather this one, we will be leaner, stronger, and provide a product that nobody else can because of our size (we must continue to work on our customer service skills though, this is no time to be complacent). We will be ready when this recession ends to become larger, stronger than we are.

If we eventually do furlough it will be for the long term, but I suspect by that time most of the smaller companies will be on the verge of extinction or extinct. By then, we will all be in trouble. Hang in there people, save your pennies and live smart.

 

[ominbnd]

I am not a kool-aide drinker, but I think we have to hand it to CS flightops managment for how they have handled a difficult situation. The furlough is being driven by higher ups, way higher than 5 American Lane. The company hired in anticipation of deliveries and they didn't happen. The company, off the record, did not want to do this, but was forced to. In light of the fact that we just went to a seniority system, they handled the reduction, just as they should have. If we had had a contract, I don't think it would have been done any differently. They have offerred some pretty generous incentives to those who may want to take an extended vacation, or retire now rather than a year from now, that might mitigate some of the job cuts. Sr. VP of Flt Ops is making the best of a terrible situation. The CS pilots are stepping up to the plate and setting up a furlough relief fund. Let's hope this is short lived and the whole industry recovers and the rich folks come back.

Tough situation for all to be sure. I'm sure that JD and SO aren't taking this lightly. They have handled it in a decent manner. The only thing I'll say about the contract issue is that if there was a contract we would know exactly what would happen if there was a furlough. We got lucky that they're doing what seems to be the right thing.

 

[UAL-GSO]

Tough situation for all to be sure. I'm sure that JD and SO aren't taking this lightly. They have handled it in a decent manner. The only thing I'll say about the contract issue is that if there was a contract we would know exactly what would happen if there was a furlough. We got lucky that they're doing what seems to be the right thing.

I hope so. I guess we'll know soon.

 

[Crow]

.

Way to armchair quarterback the plays as yous sees em pubyhairs. You are either a mom and pops operator thinkling you're bigtime or a union buster. Either way stick to what you know best,,,,jack schit.

How's it working for you?
What?
Being clever.

 

[x402]

its true just read email awhile going in reverse order said if some senior hags would go they wouldn't have to furlough

Hey junior, suck it up. What a stupid thing to post. Maybe if all the single guys or guys that live in low cost areas that don't need the money should retire. I guess you know everyones circumstances. Dumbass

 

[x402]

These elder pilots certainly have the right to stay as long as they wish. However, consider this aspect as well.
I recently had a conversation with a Capt. who had gone through recurrent with one of these "elder" fellows, also a Capt. he said that the guy crashed the sim three times DURING THE CHECKRIDE and still passed. Perhaps there needs to be a better balance between wanting to get guys through checkrides while at the same time, fairly evaluating their abilities to continue in their present position.
just something to chew on...

There should be NO leeway in check rides, either you got it or you don't, I agree on that point.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

These elder pilots certainly have the right to stay as long as they wish. However, consider this aspect as well.
I recently had a conversation with a Capt. who had gone through recurrent with one of these "elder" fellows, also a Capt. he said that the guy crashed the sim three times DURING THE CHECKRIDE and still passed. Perhaps there needs to be a better balance between wanting to get guys through checkrides while at the same time, fairly evaluating their abilities to continue in their present position.
just something to chew on...

Sounds like an examiner problem to me. The vast majority of elder experienced pilots can still fly, but can they do all the other things needed to keep owners around such as cleaning, stocking, staying awake in flight.. you know, all the things that never mattered when they were with the airlines.

 

[fob727]

Sounds like an examiner problem to me. The vast majority of elder experienced pilots can still fly, but can they do all the other things needed to keep owners around such as cleaning, stocking, staying awake in flight.. you know, all the things that never mattered when they were with the airlines.

Seems like you got the "right stuff"!!

 

[Flex-ible]

If we were to furlough, lets remember the fact that we have 8 a/c types. Can you imagine the training costs? Can you imagine what will happen when the economy recovers?? Training, hiring, re-training would be impossible. Furloughs here are not a short term answer.
.

Excellent point, and certainly one that they are thinking of at CMH. I am sure the union contract specifies how this would be handled, and there would be a lot of diplaced pilots who need training in a different aircraft.

I know from recent conversations with mgmt at Flexjet they are thinking the same thing: the cost of being understaffed when the market recovers is much higher than the cost of carrying a couple of dozen extra pilots for a few months. If it looks like the downturn will extend for years rather than months, it might change. And then it could get ugly: since Flex has no contract there is no obligation to release the most junior pilots. They could do it by fleet rather than hire date. (But no one has said that they would do this!)

 

[cherry20's]

If it looks like the downturn will extend for years rather than months, it might change. And then it could get ugly: since Flex has no contract there is no obligation to release the most junior pilots. They could do it by fleet rather than hire date. (But no one has said that they would do this!)

What (hypothetically speaking) fleet would be cut? Which is the least used type, for lack of better words...

I hope FLEX can make it through without furloughs. I have a couple friends near the bottom of the list over there and they are optimistic? Have they said anything about cutbacks?

Good luck to all your pilots. We all are hoping for the best these days!

Sorry I threadjacked.

 

[JokerFuel]

What (hypothetically speaking) fleet would be cut? Which is the least used type, for lack of better words...

I hope FLEX can make it through without furloughs. I have a couple friends near the bottom of the list over there and they are optimistic? Have they said anything about cutbacks?

Good luck to all your pilots. We all are hoping for the best these days!

Sorry I threadjacked.

That's the million dollar question at Flex. A month ago, I thought "How could they". Now I'm convinced it's the easiest way to cut costs (As management will see it). Flexjet most likely needs an IT and Communications re-vamp.. This area would likely save millions over the long term, but the short term money makes position elimanation seem more efficiant. It's hard to measure, but I don't see the new year bringing good news for junior Flexjet pilots. I may be wrong. I hope to God I am. The only ones who know aren't talking now, and they damn well are enjoying their Holiday season off. I used to feel fairly confidant in my silly opinions. Now, I'm just holding my breath and waiting this Sh&t Storm out. For now the boat is still floating, but it may be sailing to Di%k City.

 

[BeeDubya]

Flex may not have a pilot contract, but they do have owner contracts. How exactly do their contracts handle fleet elimination as a cost saving measure?