CitationShares laying off another 40 pilots

[ArtVandalay]

That's where you're wrong. Look around. How many threads here and on the regional and major's board bitch about the age deal? When I was at indoc at my current employer, I was in class with a 30 year Delta guy, retired with a multi million dollar pension. Guess what happened to that when the judge allowed the company to wack the pensions in bankrupcy court? Then they were further penalized when the PPGC said they retired too early at 60.

The majority of us older guys don't have multiple houses, boats, bikes, wives, etc. Most of us have been screwed many more times than any younger pilot, with little time left to earn that retirement dream. Heck, if RTS himself retired now, how many jobs would that save? Or if he simply took $1.00/year salary until the economy improves. How many jobs would that save?

Never look at another to make your life better. It's up to you. If the situation makes life untennable, change the situation. Most of us have had to do just that over the years, before many today were a gleam in their daddy's eye. No one wants to see anyone take the hits we see today, and I wish we'll come through with our dignity and jobs, but don't tell anyone they've had enough and should let others have a bigger share of the pie.

The difference is that you can at least get social security when you leave, the younger guys cannot. One thing I have learned from you older guys is to not make the mistake you did by putting all of my retirement in one basket.

 

[jafo20]

I talked to a 50ish Kalitta 2 (not CS, obviously) pilot who lost one house to foreclosure, bought another house south of DTW and is losing that to eminent domain at a huge loss. He's f-cked after doing his best.

My point is that the old guys have swallowed their share of sh-t. As a 30 year old guy with under 6000tt, I've swallowed far fewer turds. I'm also lucky enough to have kept a job.

This brings me to my next point. Most of the CS pilots I've met are kinda cool, so I'll offer what meager help I can.

My company lost a few FOs recently, but we're expanding our jet fleet in the near future. I'll walk in resumes of whoever's cool. My recommendation isn't worth jack, but I'll still put my name on a resume saying "I know this guy". It'll be better than nothing, I guess. Lemme know if you want me to do this.

 

[gunfyter]

The difference is that you can at least get social security when you leave, the younger guys cannot. One thing I have learned from you older guys is to not make the mistake you did by putting all of my retirement in one basket.

Art, the guy in his 30's can see now that aviation is a crappy career with a crappy future and get out now and start a new career.

Older guys cannot ... there isn't enough time to start over....

Thats the difference

 

[bailout]

Once again, yes there are older guys who have been railed by this industry and need to work. The issue is the older guy who did everything right, (which is the type we have plenty of at CS) has everything paid off and simply 'wants' to fly for the fun of it. -I'm still not saying he should give up his job for someone else, but that is how most people feel-.

 

[RCA]

Once again, yes there are older guys who have been railed by this industry and need to work. The issue is the older guy who did everything right, (which is the type we have plenty of at CS) has everything paid off and simply 'wants' to fly for the fun of it. -I'm still not saying he should give up his job for someone else, but that is how most people feel-.

Good point.

 

[Mungusaurus]

If I were over 60 and had a military and airline retirement check coming every month I wouldnt be lugging bags into the back of a Bravo, i'd be fishing!

 

[rigger]

It's to bad more of the older folks don't feel the same way! We would have far fewer folks on the street by other then their own choice.

I have had way too many of them tell me "why would I give this up I make an easy 100K a year and hardly have to work, being gone 7 days is better then sitting around"

 

[jppt2000]

It's to bad more of the older folks don't feel the same way! We would have far fewer folks on the street by other then their own choice.

I have had way too many of them tell me "why would I give this up I make an easy 100K a year and hardly have to work, being gone 7 days is better then sitting around"

It's great that FI is anonymous, this shameful, age-prejudiced crap would never be uttered if we knew who you were.

 

[rigger]

It's great that FI is anonymous, this shameful, age-prejudiced crap would never be uttered if we knew who you were.

It's funny watching the entitlement crowd get their boxers in a bunch when someone other then over 60 dare question the right they believe is theirs because they are still alive.

This crowd created the mess they are in (and one we have been left with) and now they say get the H-ll out of our way we need more of what we had!!! How dare you want to pay your bills and raise your family until we are ready for you too! You'll get your chance it's seniority....we've earned this right! Problem is when it was their turn they changed the rules because.....after all they deserved it!

As for anonymity I would and do have these discussions with many folks, Just because you are older then I it does not mean that I cannot disagree with you just because you don't like what I am saying. Stick to your guns, have some good points, don't resort to name calling, and perhaps you will let me see some points I did not consider!

 

[glasspilot]

ding...popcorn's ready.

 

[netjetwife]

... Perhaps there are other ideas that people can present out there. NJA will be presenting their NJASAP/Management ideas on Monday. CS has followed their lead in the past so hopefully they will again.

I have heard of people working less days to help their fellow workers out or keep them from getting laid off. That is an awesome thing to do! What a great show of concern and camaraderie. Kudos to those helping out!

I understand the concept of excess capacity, but its also of note that places like CS have on contract, it is "at will" so those laid off have NO gaurantees that they will be called back to work from the "furlough'. ... This is an area that CS really needs to follow the NJ lead and do the right/fair thing.

All the suggestions are greatly appreciated, it is my hope that management and pilots could get together like this and work a team, rather an against each other for the good of their employees and the company.

I fully endorse the teamwork concept. It does work as NJ pilots/families have seen, and are soon to witness again. I would love to see the other fracs embrace the idea of working together as fairness is best for everyone. My sympathy to all furloughed pilots and their families and my shared concern for those at risk.

Best Wishes!
Netjetwife

 

[jppt2000]

It's funny watching the entitlement crowd get their boxers in a bunch when someone other then over 60 dare question the right they believe is theirs because they are still alive.

This crowd created the mess they are in (and one we have been left with) and now they say get the H-ll out of our way we need more of what we had!!! How dare you want to pay your bills and raise your family until we are ready for you too! You'll get your chance it's seniority....we've earned this right! Problem is when it was their turn they changed the rules because.....after all they deserved it!

As for anonymity I would and do have these discussions with many folks, Just because you are older then I it does not mean that I cannot disagree with you just because you don't like what I am saying. Stick to your guns, have some good points, don't resort to name calling, and perhaps you will let me see some points I did not consider!

Another village is missing it's idiot and another laptop has gone missing.
I am more than twenty years from retirement.
What you have posted IMO is venom.
You appear to be consumed with envy.
Maybe, you don't realize you've entered a sector of aviation where the rules are different.
Sort of like moving near an airport then complaining about the noise.
IMO, you hide behind your anonymity to spew your anger at the situation (mess) you're in.

 

[gunfyter]

"It takes a Village ... to lose an Idiot"

 

[rigger]

Another village is missing it's idiot and another laptop has gone missing.
I am more than twenty years from retirement.
What you have posted IMO is venom.
You appear to be consumed with envy.
Maybe, you don't realize you've entered a sector of aviation where the rules are different.
Sort of like moving near an airport then complaining about the noise.
IMO, you hide behind your anonymity to spew your anger at the situation (mess) you're in.

I invited a dialog without the name calling, alas It was too much to ask and expect. You unfortunately are too caught up with emotion to have any meaningful dialog. All I did was give you my real life experience followed by an opinion of watching and being in this industry for 20 years, I too am 20 years from retirement (the new one)

the rules you state I had/Have no issue with until that is the entitlement crowd got greedy and changed them with no regard to the folks following along behind. You like I have been messed with by the system probably in differing ways.

I am sorry (for you and too you) that you feel saying what I feel and believe is "venom" perhaps you should take this emotion and anger and try very hard to allow me to see a differing perspective. Perhaps my view is clouded due to hearing and seeing to many first hand experiences with the entitlement crowd in aviation. Or perhaps as others have said here their is a real life issue with what is transpiring in the aviation community?

In the "real world" you either perform or you move on either by your own or with assistance. In this world (aviation) you are OK with being protected and if you have "seniority" being and doing what you want is supposed to be acceptable because you have earned it.....sorry in my world you only earn what you earn at the moment not what you were or did 10-20-30 years ago.

When I got into aviation I saw a lot more giving back....now I see a lot more taking back! Heck who knows maybe my generation will be as bad.......God I hope not!

 

[contrail67]

I'll rephrase it for you Mr. Jetblue, since you're right. It is a bad time for ME to be a pilot, since I will most likely be out of a job here shortly, because of the dumb choice I made leaving a regional for a "secure" fractional job. I'm sure no Southwest captain is boohooing about it being a bad time to be a pilot. I stand corrected.


If things "imporve" in the next few weeks???? Please.......

I would be careful about saying you made a dumb choice leaving a regional for a "secure" job. It was secure choice ahead of you when you left...and it was a forward movement in your eyes. That is not dumb at all.
There is not one of us that can "predict" the future....there are just the 20/20 hind sight flamebaits. There will be movement in the positive direction in the future from the fractionals to the majors....unless someone will be able to stop a person turning 65 at the Majors.