CitationShares laying off another 40 pilots

[RCA]

Also...

I think its time that management and pilots starting working closer together to save jobs. From postings I have read NetJets Union and management have come up with many money saving ideas to save jobs and prevent furloughs.

Perhaps one idea at CitationShares (and please dont flame me for this) is for all pilots AND MANGEMENT to take a 5 percent pay cut. If you multiply that over 300 some pilots plus management staff you might be able to save more than a few jobs. Certainly buyouts are a nice idea, but its better to keep guys working earning (a little less) then have guys totally out of work. It would be the ultimate expression of teamwork in tough times.

I would rather work for a bit less than have my buddies out on the street, especially these days.

Of course this isnt the only idea, just a trail balloon to get things rolling. Obviously other ideas could be presented, but this would have an immediate effect.

Its time we all work together rather than sitting here flaming each other.

PILOTS TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN!

Unfortunately, The President shares your view, and is eroding the very system that has produced more for hundreds of millions, simultaneously, than any other civilization.
If this idea worked so well we'd all be on little boats floating toward Cuba.

 

[tdwnds1]

...and yet the airlines have done EXACTLY that. They have asked for wage concessions for years. I will grant you they have union representation and contracts so the negotiations are a little different..but what I am proposing is not new at all.

The other thing is that all members share the "pain" management and pilots. NOT just the pilots. Its not communism here. Its business...plain and simple, just like the airlines. Its also NOT SOCIALISM to take care of your fellow pilot that might be sitting next to you..remember him or her?

Certainly, some sort of guaruntee can be built in to recoup those wages. Those that share in the pain should also share in the success.

PILOTS TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN!

 

[fischman]

Look how well that has worked out for the airlines. Exactly how many pilots lost their jobs over the past year? 10,000?

Concessions don't work. like gunfyter said, the only thing that can save jobs is more sales.

 

[glasspilot]

Unfortunately, The President shares your view, and is eroding the very system that has produced more for hundreds of millions, simultaneously, than any other civilization.
If your idea worked so well we'd all be on little boats floating toward Cuba.

Why do you "Bushies" always drag politics into these discussions? The guy is nervous and trying to think outside the box. Fine. People answered why his idea wouldn't work the way he thinks it might. Fine.

Then you come in, way off the reservation, with your right wing, hate the Clintons, I hope Obama fails, crap. BUSH IS THE REASON WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION. DON'T EVER FORGET THAT!!!!!! EVER!!!!!!

 

[tdwnds1]

Well Im not nervous since Im already unemployed . I am only nervous about keeping my house.

I am not looking at this as a political discussion and am certainly open to new ideas. It is my hope that the management and pilots and CS are doing the same thing. All ideas should be welcomed and debated. I agree that thousands of pilots have lost their jobs in the airlines, but much of that had to do with their business model which was unworkable and unprofitable.

I will grant you that more business is what EVERYONE needs. I think the problem is that there are so few people to sell too. Look at the price wars going on now. You are marketing to a currently shrinking clientel. The market was already saturated, so its just survival of the fittest now. Keep selling by all means, but we NEED new ideas in this new world!

 

[RCA]

Why do you "Bushies" always drag politics into these discussions? The guy is nervous and trying to think outside the box. Fine. People answered why his idea wouldn't work the way he thinks it might. Fine.

Then you come in, way off the reservation, with your right wing, hate the Clintons, I hope Obama fails, crap. BUSH IS THE REASON WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION. DON'T EVER FORGET THAT!!!!!! EVER!!!!!!

I made no mention of a political position, just stated a basic fact of human nature.

 

[RP170]

BUSH IS THE REASON WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION. DON'T EVER FORGET THAT!!!!!! EVER!!!!!!

You're a freaking tool. The sub prime mortgage mess began with the Clinton admin. Bush didn't help things either but you need to realize where this all started: democrats thinking everyone should be entitled to a home. Free handouts for the poor! Yay! It's the democratic way!

End of political portion of this thread. Carry on.

 

[tdwnds1]

Ok guys.

We dont need insults from either side. This was only supposed to be an honest and open discussion on some ideas to keep guys and gals flying and working.

All ideas are welcome, but please be respectful.

 

[brokeflyer]

democrats AND republicans are both EQUALLY uesless turds.....now that takes care of the political side of things.....now back to $hit about out of work pilots.

 

[ominbnd]

Hijack alert. Thanks anyway, Commuterguy. Squawk 7500!!

 

[cfd130]

...and yet the airlines have done EXACTLY that. They have asked for wage concessions for years. I will grant you they have union representation and contracts so the negotiations are a little different..but what I am proposing is not new at all.

The other thing is that all members share the "pain" management and pilots. NOT just the pilots. Its not communism here. Its business...plain and simple, just like the airlines. Its also NOT SOCIALISM to take care of your fellow pilot that might be sitting next to you..remember him or her?

Certainly, some sort of guaruntee can be built in to recoup those wages. Those that share in the pain should also share in the success.

PILOTS TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN!

Also dont forget the airlines promise of more aircraft and more flying hours for concessions. This works well too!!!

 

[brokeflyer]

well your comments are alway welcome, but we don't make enough to be able to give anything back.

 

[jetlag7]

Because concessions don't save jobs ... more sales and increased flying do.

If you made less money we still wouldn't need you....

BINGO!!!

If only half the working pilots out there understood this simple equation, our profession would be sooooo much better off.

Unfortunately, not enough do -- so the proverbial "flush" continues.....

 

[cfd130]

Also dont forget the airlines promise of more aircraft and more flying hours for concessions. This works well too!!!

This was an attempt at humor. Several years ago Comair landed an Embraer at CVG-Made a big deal of it.Said if there were more concessions there would be more on the way. After the concessions were given the plane took off never to be seen again.

 

[RCA]

This was an attempt at humor. Several years ago Comair landed an Embraer at CVG-Made a big deal of it.Said if there were more concessions there would be more planes on the way. After the concessions were given the plane took off never to be seen again.

They did piece together part of each plan of concessions and more planes and came up with MORE CONCESSIONS!

 

[dalegribble]

Pilot groups will never get their concessions back. As the mgmt types like to point out, there is too much capacity. Pay cuts and concessions do not solve the problem of excess capacity.

 

[tdwnds1]

I appreciate all the comments that everyone made about my idea. Most of you made some very valid points. Perhaps there are other ideas that people can present out there.

I have heard of people working less days to help their fellow workers out or keep them from getting laid off. I understand the concept of excess capacity, but its also of note that places like CS have on contract, it is "at will" so those laid off have NO gaurantees that they will be called back to work from the "furlough'. I think there is a certain amount of safety in staying in your job in such a situation.

All the suggestions are greatly appreciated, it is my hope that management and pilots could get together like this and work a team, rather an against each other for the good of their employees and the company.

 

[gunfyter]

Working fewer days might work ... But if you are already on 7&7 .... How many fewer days would management let everyone work?

 

[RCA]

I appreciate all the comments that everyone made about my idea. Most of you made some very valid points. Perhaps there are other ideas that people can present out there.

I have heard of people working less days to help their fellow workers out or keep them from getting laid off. I understand the concept of excess capacity, but its also of note that places like CS have on contract, it is "at will" so those laid off have NO gaurantees that they will be called back to work from the "furlough'. I think there is a certain amount of safety in staying in your job in such a situation.

All the suggestions are greatly appreciated, it is my hope that management and pilots could get together like this and work a team, rather an against each other for the good of their employees and the company.

This "Bushie" (thanks for the tag glasspilot) has not, and will not request a single day of OT while folks are furloughed.

 

[blueridge71]

Why can't no furloughs in exchange for pay concessions be a contractual thing, i.e. an updated IBB? I'm sure the bottom 800 or so pilots might be interested versus trying to find a pilot job in this economy.

It doesn't seem to be a question of money, but of having too much capacity. Pay cuts would not solve the capacity problem. Having our esteemed president and congress stop trashing business aviation might.