CitationShares laying off another 40 pilots

[m4j2t]

So it's cool for an "older guy" to lose his house? Class warfare is bad enough. This age warfare is getting really old fast. I've been furloughed along with tens of thousands of our collegues. I have never wished that upon even the more senior folks, much less the bottom feeders. I don't get this new age crap I guess.

You're putting words in his mouth. He's not wishing anybody lose thier house. What he's saying is that there are more than a few guys who own multiple houses, get retirment income and/or have wives making 6 figures--with no kids at home, and they could afford to take 6-12 mo's off. I fly with guys like this regularly. I'm not saying it's anybody's job to take care of the low man on the totem pole, but again--you're putting word's in his mouth.

 

[Pervis]

You're putting words in his mouth. He's not wishing anybody lose thier house. What he's saying is that there are more than a few guys who own multiple houses, get retirment income and/or have wives making 6 figures--with no kids at home, and they could afford to take 6-12 mo's off. I fly with guys like this regularly. I'm not saying it's anybody's job to take care of the low man on the totem pole, but again--you're putting word's in his mouth.

That's where you're wrong. Look around. How many threads here and on the regional and major's board bitch about the age deal? When I was at indoc at my current employer, I was in class with a 30 year Delta guy, retired with a multi million dollar pension. Guess what happened to that when the judge allowed the company to wack the pensions in bankrupcy court? Then they were further penalized when the PPGC said they retired too early at 60.

The majority of us older guys don't have multiple houses, boats, bikes, wives, etc. Most of us have been screwed many more times than any younger pilot, with little time left to earn that retirement dream. Heck, if RTS himself retired now, how many jobs would that save? Or if he simply took $1.00/year salary until the economy improves. How many jobs would that save?

Never look at another to make your life better. It's up to you. If the situation makes life untennable, change the situation. Most of us have had to do just that over the years, before many today were a gleam in their daddy's eye. No one wants to see anyone take the hits we see today, and I wish we'll come through with our dignity and jobs, but don't tell anyone they've had enough and should let others have a bigger share of the pie.

 

[bailout]

The point he was trying to make is, most 'older guys' don't have house payments, or have other income, so they would not lose their house if they stop working like a younger person would. I realize ALL older guys are not in this situation, but most are. I'm not saying they are responsible for someone else job, but I do understand his point. They bascially are working because they want to , not becasue they have to.

 

[tdwnds1]

I do not wish to see one more pilot senior or junior furloughed in this industry. I have a more personal stake in the CS furloughs since I worked there at one time and many of those pilots are my friends. I want to see EVERYONE working (including myself). I dont blame any of the "old guys' for taking my job. Each person these days has to do what they can to survive. Many have seen their livelyhood and their retirements decimated by this economy. Its all about survival now....

That said enough with all the griping. One thing the old guys taught me is that pilots take care of their own. Perhaps things might be better if we starting REALLY supporting each other rather than complaining or stabbing each other in the back. You would be suprised what you can learn from these old guys I was

 

[fischman]

Seniority rules. Sometimes it sucks, sometimes it rocks.

 

[F/O]

Why not keep the discussion limited to the facts. If anyone hears anything today, post it here first...

 

[XTW]

24 furloughs
14 downgrades
LOAs available

to be completed by June 30



X

 

[ominbnd]

Parking 7 Bravos

 

[RCA]

That's where you're wrong. Look around. How many threads here and on the regional and major's board bitch about the age deal? When I was at indoc at my current employer, I was in class with a 30 year Delta guy, retired with a multi million dollar pension. Guess what happened to that when the judge allowed the company to wack the pensions in bankrupcy court? Then they were further penalized when the PPGC said they retired too early at 60.

The majority of us older guys don't have multiple houses, boats, bikes, wives, etc. Most of us have been screwed many more times than any younger pilot, with little time left to earn that retirement dream. Heck, if RTS himself retired now, how many jobs would that save? Or if he simply took $1.00/year salary until the economy improves. How many jobs would that save?

Never look at another to make your life better. It's up to you. If the situation makes life untennable, change the situation. Most of us have had to do just that over the years, before many today were a gleam in their daddy's eye. No one wants to see anyone take the hits we see today, and I wish we'll come through with our dignity and jobs, but don't tell anyone they've had enough and should let others have a bigger share of the pie.

Thanks for the insight pervis. Us young guys stand to benefit the most from having the "experienced" guys around during these dificult times.

 

[CE750Driver]

You are such a man. A real class act, have a nice life!

Yeah, thats me. "Numero uno"

LOL. Have a nice life blowhard. Dont be climbing any clock towers soon.

 

[ArtVandalay]

That's where you're wrong. Look around. How many threads here and on the regional and major's board bitch about the age deal? When I was at indoc at my current employer, I was in class with a 30 year Delta guy, retired with a multi million dollar pension. Guess what happened to that when the judge allowed the company to wack the pensions in bankrupcy court? Then they were further penalized when the PPGC said they retired too early at 60.

The majority of us older guys don't have multiple houses, boats, bikes, wives, etc. Most of us have been screwed many more times than any younger pilot, with little time left to earn that retirement dream. Heck, if RTS himself retired now, how many jobs would that save? Or if he simply took $1.00/year salary until the economy improves. How many jobs would that save?

Never look at another to make your life better. It's up to you. If the situation makes life untennable, change the situation. Most of us have had to do just that over the years, before many today were a gleam in their daddy's eye. No one wants to see anyone take the hits we see today, and I wish we'll come through with our dignity and jobs, but don't tell anyone they've had enough and should let others have a bigger share of the pie.

The difference is that you can at least get social security when you leave, the younger guys cannot. One thing I have learned from you older guys is to not make the mistake you did by putting all of my retirement in one basket.

 

[jafo20]

I talked to a 50ish Kalitta 2 (not CS, obviously) pilot who lost one house to foreclosure, bought another house south of DTW and is losing that to eminent domain at a huge loss. He's f-cked after doing his best.

My point is that the old guys have swallowed their share of sh-t. As a 30 year old guy with under 6000tt, I've swallowed far fewer turds. I'm also lucky enough to have kept a job.

This brings me to my next point. Most of the CS pilots I've met are kinda cool, so I'll offer what meager help I can.

My company lost a few FOs recently, but we're expanding our jet fleet in the near future. I'll walk in resumes of whoever's cool. My recommendation isn't worth jack, but I'll still put my name on a resume saying "I know this guy". It'll be better than nothing, I guess. Lemme know if you want me to do this.

 

[gunfyter]

The difference is that you can at least get social security when you leave, the younger guys cannot. One thing I have learned from you older guys is to not make the mistake you did by putting all of my retirement in one basket.

Art, the guy in his 30's can see now that aviation is a crappy career with a crappy future and get out now and start a new career.

Older guys cannot ... there isn't enough time to start over....

Thats the difference

 

[bailout]

Once again, yes there are older guys who have been railed by this industry and need to work. The issue is the older guy who did everything right, (which is the type we have plenty of at CS) has everything paid off and simply 'wants' to fly for the fun of it. -I'm still not saying he should give up his job for someone else, but that is how most people feel-.

 

[RCA]

Once again, yes there are older guys who have been railed by this industry and need to work. The issue is the older guy who did everything right, (which is the type we have plenty of at CS) has everything paid off and simply 'wants' to fly for the fun of it. -I'm still not saying he should give up his job for someone else, but that is how most people feel-.

Good point.

 

[Mungusaurus]

If I were over 60 and had a military and airline retirement check coming every month I wouldnt be lugging bags into the back of a Bravo, i'd be fishing!

 

[rigger]

It's to bad more of the older folks don't feel the same way! We would have far fewer folks on the street by other then their own choice.

I have had way too many of them tell me "why would I give this up I make an easy 100K a year and hardly have to work, being gone 7 days is better then sitting around"

 

[jppt2000]

It's to bad more of the older folks don't feel the same way! We would have far fewer folks on the street by other then their own choice.

I have had way too many of them tell me "why would I give this up I make an easy 100K a year and hardly have to work, being gone 7 days is better then sitting around"

It's great that FI is anonymous, this shameful, age-prejudiced crap would never be uttered if we knew who you were.

 

[rigger]

It's great that FI is anonymous, this shameful, age-prejudiced crap would never be uttered if we knew who you were.

It's funny watching the entitlement crowd get their boxers in a bunch when someone other then over 60 dare question the right they believe is theirs because they are still alive.

This crowd created the mess they are in (and one we have been left with) and now they say get the H-ll out of our way we need more of what we had!!! How dare you want to pay your bills and raise your family until we are ready for you too! You'll get your chance it's seniority....we've earned this right! Problem is when it was their turn they changed the rules because.....after all they deserved it!

As for anonymity I would and do have these discussions with many folks, Just because you are older then I it does not mean that I cannot disagree with you just because you don't like what I am saying. Stick to your guns, have some good points, don't resort to name calling, and perhaps you will let me see some points I did not consider!

 

[glasspilot]

ding...popcorn's ready.