CitationAir

[B19 Flyer]

That's awesome, I didn't even have to go find your post! Thanks for helping me prove my point, B.

The only thing that you proved was that you don't understand your responsibilities as a pilot.

Go ahead, write an airplane up on something... anything... you don't go anyplace until it's signed off by a mechanic.

They have the power to detirmine if it's broken, you only have the power to guess whether or not it's working the way you think it's supposed to. :smash:

 

[imacdog]

The only thing that you proved was that you don't understand your responsibilities as a pilot.

Go ahead, write an airplane up on something... anything... you don't go anyplace until it's signed off by a mechanic.

That's kind of my point, wasn't it? Pilots get to determine when the plane is broken. Keep the comedy rolling while I thank God that I don't work for someone as deranged as you are.

 

[B19 Flyer]

But you still haven’t answered the original question. How would you quantify a pilot’s value and what criterion would you use to identify their merit?

Pilot x reportedly makes good landings so we keep him? How is this quantifiable since there are only two grades recorded on the 8710 “S” or “U”.

Oh, but pilot x called in sick three times last year so he’s out?

Pilot y will do anything to get the job done so we keep him? Is that what you’re advocating? Sounds like a recipe for smoking holes.

Pilot merit is impossible to quantify and this is why even non-union companies ultimately end up with a seniority based system. We don’t make the schedule and we are required to ground airplanes when they are broken and call in sick when ill, so at the end of the day that leaves only subjective criteria, like who kisses the most a$$. I’ve noticed over the years that the “A-Teamers” often end up getting fired by guys like you because they take it a little too far.

Hey BTW, you do have a seniority list at Avantair right?

Read my other post too... it is absolutely quantifiable on what seperates good pilots from bad. It has nothing to do with stick and rudder, it's all about character and intergrity and doing the job right. I can list of dozens of things that separate good pilots from bad..

To add to the previous post... being ready for training, keeping your manuals updated, getting proper rest, wearing clean uniforms, abiding by the dress code, keeping a neat haircut, not acting like an idiot in a hotel on a layover, getting their medical on time, treating passengers with respect, being careful about talking about company business in front of customers.. etc. etc. etc.

All of which I've seen over the years.

I can go on and on about what separates a good pilot from bad, and it has nothing to do with stick and rudder, a seniority list or if a pilot is willing to do something that is illegal or not. It has nothing to do with a legit grounding of an airplane or a legit write-up.

Seniority lists protect those pilots that are substandard in every way possible except for their ability to fly the airplane. In case you aren't aware, being a pilot encompasses a lot more than just flying an airplane.

When any company hires you, regardless of pay, no matter if you are flipping burgers or flying airplanes, you need to do the job right.

 

[B19 Flyer]

That's kind of my point, wasn't it? Pilots get to determine when the plane is broken. Keep the comedy rolling while I thank God that I don't work for someone as deranged as you are.

No, they don't. Pilots only get to detirmine if there is something that they THINK may be not work as advertised.

When you see that little "could not duplicate" written and signed off by the mechanic in the logbook?

That means the pilot was wrong, the airplane wasn't broken, and he just wasted a whole lot of time.

 

[Crash Pad]

Wow. I'm speechless after that underlined statement. I guess initial type ratings and recurrent are pointless. Apparently nothing will qualify us as pilots to troubleshoot when things don't work.

 

[imacdog]

When you see that little "could not duplicate" written and signed off by the mechanic in the logbook?


That means the pilot was wrong, the airplane wasn't broken, and he just wasted a whole lot of time.

Or it could just mean that the issue really didn't duplicate.

So do you reprimand your pilots that write up something and maintenance comes back with "could not duplicate"?

 

[gunfyter]

Means its still broken and has to be written up again ....

 

[fischman]

That means the pilot was wrong, the airplane wasn't broken, and he just wasted a whole lot of time.

That is NOT what "could not duplicate" means. To say otherwise is irresponsible. I truly hope that you do not think that way as a manager.

There have been numerous times when I have picked up and airplane that was just signed off in that manner. It either is written up again, or at the first destination because the plane did EXACTLY what the previous pilot said it did. The mechanic simply was not able to duplicate it.

 

[fischman]

Pilots are NOT qualifed to detirmine if an airplane is broken or not.

If a pilot writes up an item and the mechanic signs it off as airworthy, it's not broken no matter how much the pilot wants to slow the operation down.

Pilots are also not qualified to diagnose the problem or fix the problem.

My GAWD, you are being offensive! uke: Who pissed in your Cheerios today!?! Do you SERIOUSLY have such a low opinion of pilots? How do you ever get off the ground?

Sooo, if the engine doesn't light off because of bad ignitors, am I not qualified to determine that the engine isn't running? If I go outside and don't hear the ignitors firing, should I not put that in the write up to help the company diagnose what is wrong? What if that helps the mechanic who is driving several hours to get to the plane bring the correct equipment to get the plane airborne faster?

Or should I just write it up as "The left engine doesn't work" since I am "NOT qualified" to determine that the airplane is broken? :angryfire


Use the spell check. It will help your credibility.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Pilots are NOT qualifed to detirmine if an airplane is broken or not.

Pilots are also not qualified to diagnose the problem or fix the problem.

This one is.

 

[brokeflyer]

you need to read the regulations there b....

The CAPTAIN has the final authority......blah blah.

So, when I say something isnt working, I just determined if it was airworthy or not. And that comes from the regulations. I didnt write them, I just do what they say. And if mx says "unable to duplicate"? that means they didnt fix what was broken....and it needs written up AGAIN until the item is repaired. If its broken then its broken....It dont matter what the mechanic writes, he can say its airworthy all day long but it dont mean the airplane will fly. The pilot determines if its airworthy. I know that cuts into your profit but that isnt our department. Maybe you should take a pay cut or something to make it work.



Most of the time spent by the flight crew is making sure management isnt trying to skirt the regs to get a revenue trip done.

You have a lot to learn about the operational side of aviation. You have the management side down real good.....safety is your number one concern, as long as it dont cost anything..

you're a very unsafe manager. I hope you retire or get arrested before you kill a lot of people.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Pilots are NOT qualifed to detirmine if an airplane is broken or not.

Let me help you there, Broke:

§ 91.7 Civil aircraft airworthiness.
​

(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft unless it is in an airworthy condition.
​

(b) The pilot in command of a civil aircraft is responsible for determining whether that aircraft is in condition for safe flight. The pilot in command shall discontinue the flight when unairworthy mechanical, electrical, or structural conditions occur.

​

If a pilot is not qualified to determine if an airplane is broken or not, then how do we comply with the above regulation?

Sorry B. It is obvious to all who are reading your posts that you're grasping at straws and missing miserably.

 

[XTW]

That means the pilot was wrong, the airplane wasn't broken, and he just wasted a whole lot of time.

I've read a lot of your posts, but this one takes the cake. You really can't believe this statement can you?

X

 

[fischman]

Hehe...

B19, this is why I asked you to keep posting.

What's next? I can't WAIT!!!!

 

[Crash Pad]

I just get the warm and fuzzy's knowing that we possibly have 2 insane people in 1 thread. When will rcr5 jump back in his little battle he started? Is he going to back up his smack considering he may have just been called back?

 

[wacoflyr]

When you see that little "could not duplicate" written and signed off by the mechanic in the logbook?

That means the pilot was wrong, the airplane wasn't broken, and he just wasted a whole lot of time.

Over the years, B19, I have agreed with you on some stuff. Even against the majority here. But this is just flat wrong. Things happen in the air that cannot be duplicated on the ground. When mechanics ignore this reality, they waste time, not us. And frequently, faults are intermittent. But you must know all this. So what the hell?

 

[imacdog]

Just think Waco, you could be working for this guy.

 

[UAL-GSO]

No, they don't. Pilots only get to detirmine if there is something that they THINK may be not work as advertised.

When you see that little "could not duplicate" written and signed off by the mechanic in the logbook?

That means the pilot was wrong, the airplane wasn't broken, and he just wasted a whole lot of time.

Your post about integrity and character is dead-on accurate. I really hope you were joking with the above post, though. If not, you have no business being anywhere near an airplane.

 

[Chairman]

Just write "Uncommanded in Flight" along with your write up. It can't be cleared as could not duplicate with out a test flight

 

[OHGOON]

Hey B19,

Really would like to "detirmine" what is wrong with you too?

First though, I'll leave it to you to figure out what is wrong with the word in quotes, you pompous lickspitle.

• Here's a teeny hint: Suggest exploring what that little "ABC with a check mark under it" icon in the upper right hand corner of the posting screen can do for ya.

The best part about your tone and expressed inanities in your posts is that you are outing yourself every time as a failed line pilot who now is desperately trying to overcompensate as a little mid level management tyrant wanna-be.

"Cannot duplicate" is proof that the pilot was wrong and therefore is not qualified to make an airworthyness determination."

That has got to be one of the 10 dumbest things I have read on any aviation related board ever.

I really feel for those of you who have to deal with this lost soul on a professional basis.

 

[FLYLOW22]

"Cannot duplicate" is proof that the pilot was wrong and therefore is not qualified to make an airworthyness determination."

Airworthyness?

Is that like Truthiness?

 

[RCR5]

It must have been his kid. Anyone with that kind of ignorance and blatant slander cannot be a grown man. Who is now silent and smack talk lacking. Based in Chicago and on the XL by the way. Oh, and ex-military. The recall list is short rcr5.

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Absolutely CLASSIC.....sorry, keep fishing. You have wrong information.

Times change, so do lives. Keep casting.

I would make it easy for you and just meet you if you like? Let me know.

 

[B19 Flyer]

you need to read the regulations there b....

The CAPTAIN has the final authority......blah blah.

So, when I say something isnt working, I just determined if it was airworthy or not. And that comes from the regulations. I didnt write them, I just do what they say. And if mx says "unable to duplicate"? that means they didnt fix what was broken....and it needs written up AGAIN until the item is repaired. If its broken then its broken....It dont matter what the mechanic writes, he can say its airworthy all day long but it dont mean the airplane will fly. The pilot determines if its airworthy. I know that cuts into your profit but that isnt our department. Maybe you should take a pay cut or something to make it work.



Most of the time spent by the flight crew is making sure management isnt trying to skirt the regs to get a revenue trip done.

You have a lot to learn about the operational side of aviation. You have the management side down real good.....safety is your number one concern, as long as it dont cost anything..

you're a very unsafe manager. I hope you retire or get arrested before you kill a lot of people.

Broke, to begin with, I've forgotten more in the past five minutes about the operations side of aviation and safety than you've experienced throughout your entire career as a pilot so I'm going to pick on you today because... well, just because.

I’ve had the pleasure of keeping pilots safe and from hurting themselves and others for a very long time now. I’m sure you’re perfect Broke, but that doesn’t mean all pilots are. It only takes one mistake to change the industry, and every pilot flying a commercial airplane today is one error away.

This is the dirty side of aviation that both you and your cronies will never admit to, that being there is somebody there with oversight to try and think of all the things that can go wrong on a flight by flight basis. That extends well beyond that of a pilot on any given flight.

Before that pilot is signed off to fly, somebody has to think of not only how that pilot is trained, but where the mistakes are most likely to happen, who can contribute to those mistakes and how to avoid them before they happen.

You think pilots come up with this stuff? Yeah, right. As I stated in my earlier post about what makes a good pilot, it’s the entire picture broke, not just your exalted view from the flight deck. Somebody has to understand what is happening operationally to make sure that the entire picture fits together. The new official term for this is SMS, but it’s been in the industry ever since I can remember, and let me tell you.. pilots are not the people you want involved in developing that type of program. They have a single view, and it’s not always that which is best for the entire picture.

As I’ve stated before, if something isn’t working to what a pilot perceives it should be, it’s up to the mechanic to determine what’s wrong and fix it. If a pilot continues to perceive the same issue from airplane to airplane as I’ve seen so many times over the years, it’s a pilot issue, not an airplane issue. That’s why pilots are retrained, because no matter how much people like me try to use a crystal ball to anticipate the next issue, we seem to always be one step behind the next stupid pilot trick.

The mechanic has the final say on the airworthiness of the airplane. Period. He doesn’t sign, you don’t go.

You have the privilege of the write up. It is their signature, not the pilots however, that gives you an airworthy airplane.

 

[tailwindz]

I just vomited a little in my mouth.

B19, whomever you are you would not last one day in my world.

I have NEVER seem a mechanic rotate at Vr.

 

[CA1900]

I have, on the other hand, seen a mechanic "troubleshoot" an electrical fault by holding the breaker in until it started smoking again.

The plane doesn't move until the mechanic and the pilot sign off that it's airworthy. The pilot most certainly does have the final say.

 

[imacdog]

You have the privilege of the write up. It is their signature, not the pilots however, that gives you an airworthy airplane.

I think you've proven here that you really have forgotten much about aviation. Might want to quit before you lose all your memory. The plane doesn't fly until the PIC signs the release.

 

[brokeflyer]

Broke, to begin with, I've forgotten more in the past five minutes about the operations side of aviation and safety than you've experienced throughout your entire career as a pilot so I'm going to pick on you today because... well, just because.

I’ve had the pleasure of keeping pilots safe and from hurting themselves and others for a very long time now. I’m sure you’re perfect Broke, but that doesn’t mean all pilots are. It only takes one mistake to change the industry, and every pilot flying a commercial airplane today is one error away.

This is the dirty side of aviation that both you and your cronies will never admit to, that being there is somebody there with oversight to try and think of all the things that can go wrong on a flight by flight basis. That extends well beyond that of a pilot on any given flight.

Before that pilot is signed off to fly, somebody has to think of not only how that pilot is trained, but where the mistakes are most likely to happen, who can contribute to those mistakes and how to avoid them before they happen.

You think pilots come up with this stuff? Yeah, right. As I stated in my earlier post about what makes a good pilot, it’s the entire picture broke, not just your exalted view from the flight deck. Somebody has to understand what is happening operationally to make sure that the entire picture fits together. The new official term for this is SMS, but it’s been in the industry ever since I can remember, and let me tell you.. pilots are not the people you want involved in developing that type of program. They have a single view, and it’s not always that which is best for the entire picture.

As I’ve stated before, if something isn’t working to what a pilot perceives it should be, it’s up to the mechanic to determine what’s wrong and fix it. If a pilot continues to perceive the same issue from airplane to airplane as I’ve seen so many times over the years, it’s a pilot issue, not an airplane issue. That’s why pilots are retrained, because no matter how much people like me try to use a crystal ball to anticipate the next issue, we seem to always be one step behind the next stupid pilot trick.

The mechanic has the final say on the airworthiness of the airplane. Period. He doesn’t sign, you don’t go.

You have the privilege of the write up. It is their signature, not the pilots however, that gives you an airworthy airplane.

yeah, i always pick on the people i know are right too. You're obviously "forgetting" all the important stuff, maybe you shouldnt post anymore, it just makes you look ignorant.

Pick all you want though, i've worn down managers a lot smarter than you think you are, when you were still in grade school kid. Im retired now and I earned the right.

My first type rating was in a DC6, any questions kid?


Your apology is accepted though.

 

[wacoflyr]

The mechanic has the final say on the airworthiness of the airplane. Period.

FAR 91.3 (a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.


FAR 91.7 (b) The pilot in command of a civil aircraft is responsible for determining whether that aircraft is in condition for safe flight. The pilot in command shall discontinue the flight when unairworthy mechanical, electrical, or structural conditions occur.

Well, that was easy to look up. I know which one prints my license.

 

[UAL-GSO]

You guys may as well talk to a wall - he's a lost cause. Just be thankful he's not in an airplane where he could hurt someone.

 

[dime line]

FAR 91.3 (a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.


FAR 91.7 (b) The pilot in command of a civil aircraft is responsible for determining whether that aircraft is in condition for safe flight. The pilot in command shall discontinue the flight when unairworthy mechanical, electrical, or structural conditions occur.

Well, that was easy to look up. I know which one prints my license.

DA19 isn't required to know how to read. Hows the union drive going right down from your office in Clearwater?