CitationAir

[fischman]

Name calling is the last resort of a weak mind. Don't waste your time with RCR5, who is obviously unable to create a rational argument without delivering playground antics.

 

[B19 Flyer]

This is where my original question comes in. Under your concept, the remaining pilots would need to be ranked in order of their "merit" or value to the company. How would you quantify that value among the remaining pilots and what criterion would you use to identify the remaining pilots merit?

There is no "ranking", there are those that get it done and those that don't. How do you think all those rank and file workers get laid off when the union plays their ugly game before the union coughs anybody up to save money?

Do you think that they do it by seniority?

Hell no...

They keep those that produce the best quality product and are willing to make the company strong, because only the strong survive.

That can't be quantified by how long somebody has been in the job, but there are those that fit the job better than others.

Pilots have lots of personalities and not all are cut out to be frac pilots.

When the time comes to figure out furloughs, the same thinking should apply to the pilots as to the rank and file workers that have already taken the cut. The strong survive and the weak get culled.

Seniority should be meaningless.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Name calling is the last resort of a weak mind. Don't waste your time with RCR5, who is obviously unable to create a rational argument without delivering playground antics.

When it comes to a weak mind, you certainly are the first one that comes to my mind. He has rational arguments and it's clear that he's got the ability to make up his own mind, rather than use the group mentality that you do and allow others to make up your mind for you.


I have yet to meet a union monger that has the guts to stand up to union leadership even when he knows that the union is failing, and fischman.. after dicing with you for the best part of four years, I know that you are nothing but a union follower where pilots like RCR5 get it and understand it..

 

[B19 Flyer]

Name calling is the last resort of a weak mind. Don't waste your time with RCR5, who is obviously unable to create a rational argument without delivering playground antics.

And to add one last thought, I can't sit there and enjoy how he's come across in his posts.. however, some of you guys don't really get how frustrating it is to watch what unions do to families until you've been caught up in a furlough and had the union turn its back on you. They support the top 2/3rds and sacrifice the rest.


He's venting, and while it may not be the right words and method, there are many out there that remain silent but feel no different than he does. I have had lots of PMs that have supported me over the years just because they didn't want to engage openly on the boards where I didn't have a problem doing so.

 

[dicko]

Thanks for your concern, dick. I will continue beating up on the stupid.....yourself included.

The last laugh ........ :laugh:

 

[fischman]

When it comes to a weak mind, you certainly are the first one that comes to my mind. He has rational arguments and it's clear that he's got the ability to make up his own mind, rather than use the group mentality that you do and allow others to make up your mind for you.


I have yet to meet a union monger that has the guts to stand up to union leadership even when he knows that the union is failing, and fischman.. after dicing with you for the best part of four years, I know that you are nothing but a union follower where pilots like RCR5 get it and understand it..

Sooo, you call name calling "rational arguments"? When in 4 years of sparring with you, have I EVER called you (or anyone else) a name? I'll save you the search. 0. But, you never let facts get in your way did you?

B19, the best part of sparring with you on FI.com is letting other people see your ridiculous posts... Please. Keep them coming.

 

[brokeflyer]

ah gawd....b19 is back.

YOU DONT LIKE UNIONS......OK WE GET IT


ONE MORE TIME........WE HEAR YOU

 

[OHGOON]

... however, some of you guys don't really get how frustrating it is to watch what unions do to families until you've been caught up in a furlough and had the union turn its back on you. They support the top 2/3rds and sacrifice the rest.

CitationAir does not have a union you pompous dolt. There is nothing to watch other than what management hands down from up above usually late Friday afternoons.

RCR5 obviously has issues way beyond the scope of aviation. The last thing he needs is you using him as a foil for your lame instigations. uke:

Please go away and flame-bait somewhere else.

 

[B19 Flyer]

ah gawd....b19 is back.

YOU DONT LIKE UNIONS......OK WE GET IT


ONE MORE TIME........WE HEAR YOU

No you don't... and I've never left.

Nobody likes a union except those that are in the union leadership reaping the financial benefits of the dues paying pilots.

They suckered the rest of you. I'm just one of those that couldn't be suckered.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Sooo, you call name calling "rational arguments"? When in 4 years of sparring with you, have I EVER called you (or anyone else) a name? I'll save you the search. 0. But, you never let facts get in your way did you?

B19, the best part of sparring with you on FI.com is letting other people see your ridiculous posts... Please. Keep them coming.

I guess your right, maybe you haven't called me any names. However, I've called you a union monger many times, and that really isn't a name, it's more of a description.

You've always been blind about those that have lost their careers and/or livelihoods because of unions, but that's OK, I wouldn't expect anything any different out of you.

 

[fischman]

I guess your right, maybe you haven't called me any names. However, I've called you a union monger many times, and that really isn't a name, it's more of a description.

You've always been blind about those that have lost their careers and/or livelihoods because of unions, but that's OK, I wouldn't expect anything any different out of you.

BTW, when we meet you can say you've met a "union monger" who stands up to his union leadership when he sees them out of line too. Don't believe me? Ask the current NJASAP president. I haven't been shy about sharing my opinion.

To say I'm blind about those who have lost their careers due to unions is funny. Unions don't fire employees. Management does. But that's OK. I wouldn't expect anything different out of you.

 

[Praetorian]

There is no "ranking", there are those that get it done and those that don't. How do you think all those rank and file workers get laid off when the union plays their ugly game before the union coughs anybody up to save money?

Do you think that they do it by seniority?

Hell no...

They keep those that produce the best quality product and are willing to make the company strong, because only the strong survive.

That can't be quantified by how long somebody has been in the job, but there are those that fit the job better than others.

Pilots have lots of personalities and not all are cut out to be frac pilots.

When the time comes to figure out furloughs, the same thinking should apply to the pilots as to the rank and file workers that have already taken the cut. The strong survive and the weak get culled.

Seniority should be meaningless.

But you still haven’t answered the original question. How would you quantify a pilot’s value and what criterion would you use to identify their merit?

Pilot x reportedly makes good landings so we keep him? How is this quantifiable since there are only two grades recorded on the 8710 “S” or “U”.

Oh, but pilot x called in sick three times last year so he’s out?

Pilot y will do anything to get the job done so we keep him? Is that what you’re advocating? Sounds like a recipe for smoking holes.

Pilot merit is impossible to quantify and this is why even non-union companies ultimately end up with a seniority based system. We don’t make the schedule and we are required to ground airplanes when they are broken and call in sick when ill, so at the end of the day that leaves only subjective criteria, like who kisses the most a$$. I’ve noticed over the years that the “A-Teamers” often end up getting fired by guys like you because they take it a little too far.

Hey BTW, you do have a seniority list at Avantair right?

 

[CA1900]

B19 would reward the pilots who "get the job done" by not inconveniencing the passengers with things like writing up broken airplanes. Anyone who downs an airplane just because it's broken clearly isn't a team player and should be compensated accordingly.

 

[imacdog]

Also don't forget that in the word of 19, pilots aren't capable of determining whether a plane is broken or not.

 

[fischman]

He won't remember that one.

I can't wait for the spin...

Ridiculous comeback post in 5...4...3...2...1...

 

[Praetorian]

He won't remember that one.

I can't wait for the spin...

Ridiculous comeback post in 5...4...3...2...1...

I referenced his employer so he can't respond. Just put "Avantair" at the bottom of any post and he will not answer. It's like garlic or holy water to vampires. Try it. It works.

Avantair. Avantair. :beer:

 

[fischman]

Avantair? Is that like a fast food joint or something? :nuts:




JUST KIDDING AVANTAIR GUYS!!!

 

[B19 Flyer]

Also don't forget that in the word of 19, pilots aren't capable of determining whether a plane is broken or not.

Pilots are NOT qualifed to detirmine if an airplane is broken or not.

If a pilot writes up an item and the mechanic signs it off as airworthy, it's not broken no matter how much the pilot wants to slow the operation down.

Pilots are also not qualified to diagnose the problem or fix the problem.

 

[imacdog]

That's awesome, I didn't even have to go find your post! Thanks for helping me prove my point, B.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19 would reward the pilots who "get the job done" by not inconveniencing the passengers with things like writing up broken airplanes. Anyone who downs an airplane just because it's broken clearly isn't a team player and should be compensated accordingly.

There are good pilots and bad pilots. It's all about integrity.

There are pilots that just get it done the right way. They don't play games with the system, they show up on time, they preflight and post flight an airplane properly. Most of the time, you don't even know they are there, they are under the radar. They turn in paperwork on time and keep the logbook up to date. You can actually read the handwriting.

They make sure the cabin of the airplane is clean, they are proactive in flight planning and you don't have to hold their hand on every little issue that pops up. It's about understanding what the entire job is and doing it to the best of their ability.

Integrity isn't built on seniority, it's built by character. It has nothing to do with stick and rudder, anybody can learn to fly an airplane.
It has nothing to do with flying broken airplanes, or doing things that aren't legal. It's not about pushing the envelope about anything in the airplane.

Those are the pilots that you want around, those that you have confidence in that will write up an airplane and you know it's a valid problem simply by the integrity of the individual.

It's those that dot the "I"s and cross the "T"s and get it done the right way that deserve to be compensated accordingly.

There isn't a seniority number in the world that will stand up to the list of integrity.