CitationAir

[imacdog]

What happened to the "new" and nice B19? That did not last long....

It's hard to pretend to be nice when one is actually a very angry little man who gets called on his BS.

 

[UAL-GSO]

Yes, be thankful I'm not. If I was, then I and others in simular positions wouldn't have been able to have helped as many pilots as we have over the years. It's the pilot mentality of not understanding the big picture, as is in this conversation now, that is the curse of why things sometimes happen the way they do. If not for those like me, change wouldn't happen in the industry to make things safer for you and the traveling public.You watch things one flight at a time. The only things that affect you are what happens moment by moment. You have no understanding on who sets up the system that allows you to feel confident that you have an airworthy airplane underneath your butt. That's OK, it's my understanding of that holier than thou attitude of a pilot that allows people like me to see ahead and help to save you from yourself.

No need to say thank you, those that care like I do will continue to make sure that you're safe even though you folks don't appreciate it.

Wow - talk about a holier than thou attitude... You're leading the charge to make the industry safer and you don't even know what "could not duplicate" means?

Interesting line you wrote up there. You want to take credit for changing the industry. Change often happens in this industry after people die. People die because complacency sets in and priorities shift away from safety. Thank god for every desk jockey like you who is willing to order a short cut to "help" the operation, there is a pilot who is willing to stand their ground and keep that airplane where it belongs as long as it takes to make it safe.

I been in this game for a few years myself. Managers come and go - always have, always will. The safety of the system lies in the knowledge and skill of the flight crew, dispatchers, mechanics etc... and there ability to work together. Hate to break it to you, but you aren't really saving anyone from themselves

Who do work for, anyway?

 

[fischman]

Avantair

 

[The Dude Abides]

Yes, be thankful I'm not. If I was, then I and others in simular positions wouldn't have been able to have helped as many pilots as we have over the years. It's the pilot mentality of not understanding the big picture, as is in this conversation now, that is the curse of why things sometimes happen the way they do. If not for those like me, change wouldn't happen in the industry to make things safer for you and the traveling public. You watch things one flight at a time. The only things that affect you are what happens moment by moment. You have no understanding on who sets up the system that allows you to feel confident that you have an airworthy airplane underneath your butt. That's OK, it's my understanding of that holier than thou attitude of a pilot that allows people like me to see ahead and help to save you from yourself.

No need to say thank you, those that care like I do will continue to make sure that you're safe even though you folks don't appreciate it.

WOW . . . Anyone know what the top of the narcissism scale is? Please print this out and hand it to the PIC the next time you fly on one of your company's aircraft.

 

[sshrae]

Avantair

If that's the case, they definitely need a union. 8 and 6 is the least of their problems.

 

[wacoflyr]

Avantair

He's guessing. I'm guessing too, when I say I think he's not here anymore, although I think he once was. But as someone who works here, I'd say I have the inside track.

 

[texman]

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Absolutely CLASSIC.....sorry, keep fishing. You have wrong information.

Times change, so do lives. Keep casting.

I would make it easy for you and just meet you if you like? Let me know.

I know who you are. How about yall meet in Laredo, but on the other side.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Wow - talk about a holier than thou attitude... You're leading the charge to make the industry safer and you don't even know what "could not duplicate" means?

Interesting line you wrote up there. You want to take credit for changing the industry. Change often happens in this industry after people die. People die because complacency sets in and priorities shift away from safety. Thank god for every desk jockey like you who is willing to order a short cut to "help" the operation, there is a pilot who is willing to stand their ground and keep that airplane where it belongs as long as it takes to make it safe.

I been in this game for a few years myself. Managers come and go - always have, always will. The safety of the system lies in the knowledge and skill of the flight crew, dispatchers, mechanics etc... and there ability to work together. Hate to break it to you, but you aren't really saving anyone from themselves

Who do work for, anyway?

The safety of the system lies in the knowledge and skill of those that have the ability to see beyond the individual flight and react to the flaws that are within the system by having the ability to change the system. That is a skill which is acquired from a desk, not the flight deck. “Desk Jockeys” hold positions that keep you safe when you fly every day.
Pilot’s are not capable of admitting that they are hired, trained and kept safe by those that fly a desk.
And yes, if you have seen the “stupid pilot tricks” I’ve seen over the last couple of decades, people in my capacity have indeed set systems up where you really have to work to hurt yourselves. Thus, we have indeed saved you from yourselves.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Look B19, we all see the point that you are trying to make. Yes, mechanics are important. No one here believes otherwise. No, we can't launch without the mechanics signature. Simple answer. But the correct answer which you argued against, is that the pilot in command is the final authority for the flight, and is responsible for the airworthiness of the aircraft. The FAR's state this, the point is irrefutable, and when you argue against this your other points, which are sometimes accurate, get lost in the glare of your mistake.

But you refuse to see this, because you seem to be blinded by what looks like anger toward all of us pilots. Who are you to accuse us of a "holier than thou" attitude? I mean, come on. I, for one, don't appreciate your condescending attitude toward us. This sort of problem is what drives a wedge between management and pilots.

You say we don't have the big picture? That's probably true. But we are where the rubber meets the road. We go face to face with the owners who pay your salary. And you don't have a clue how pilots sometimes save the company big headaches by smoothing waters that others have made rough. Yup, sometimes we fix mistakes made by management. We calm anger caused by what are sometimes completely preventable mistakes. We find economies in fuel pricing, hotel reservation, and occasionally even scheduling that save our companies big, big bucks. Money that management left on the table. We see plenty of other waste that we can't save, that we can only shake our heads at. And then we navigate an ever more complicated airspace through nearly all weather to deliver very precious families to fun airports like Eagle, Ocean Reef, and Monteray.

But we are capable of much more. You would be surprised by what you find in the cockpits these days. There are some tools, but most pilots I talk to have extensive experience outside of aviation, doing amazing things. It is a waste to underestimate people.

If you really work for a company that employs pilots, you would be doing yourself a favor to see them as a far greater resource than just performing the very complicated job that they already do. Instead of relegating pilots as functionaries to be backed into a corner with GOM's and FAR's, you should enable them to find solutions for some of the bigger problems that you face. They would surprise you. Your company would benefit, and you could stop preaching to us here, and we could all move along, exchanging useful info like adults.


Wacoflyr

I don’t have anger against any pilot, hell… I was a pilot for years. What I have a frustration with are those on this board that simply don’t understand that the system is bigger than any individual pilot and pilots are hired to fly airplanes based on practices developed outside of the flight deck. Yes, pilots are the pilots on the line. I get that. Sometimes they fix mistakes others make. I get that. It’s that responsibility that comes with being a Captain and employee of the company. That is their j-o-b.
To those few that have had the guts to step into management and see the real “working side” of an air carrier it’s an eye opener. They can come closer to the reality faced by the big picture every day. Even then, it’s even rarer that they get to see the bean counting side where sales contracts are negotiated and tax loopholes are exploited. That’s where the rubber meets the road. Line pilots don’t see that.
There is a bigger picture that creates the structure you fly under each day, but there isn’t a pilot on this board that will admit to it. That’s where I get frustrated.

 

[B19 Flyer]

WOW . . . Anyone know what the top of the narcissism scale is? Please print this out and hand it to the PIC the next time you fly on one of your company's aircraft.

I don't know... you tell me. You're the pilot. I'm just one of a group of people that keeps you out of mischief.