CHQ, FREEDOM, and ASA pilots need to stick together on this!!

[PCL_128]

Unless the mainline pilots want to start paying to fly on us..... That would be fair don't ya think......????

Nope. You're flying their code.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Nope. You're flying their code.

.... in OUR aircraft with OUR airline.... You want this to be a one way street, but it takes BOTH sides to make it work....

..... if they want ALL the say, then they should fly THEIR code in THEIR aircraft..... when they fly them in OUR aircraft, we have a say.....

...... if push comes to shove, who owns OUR jumpseat?

 

[PCL_128]

but it takes BOTH sides to make it work....

I would argue that the whole arrangement doesn't "work" at all. It destroys the brand image, it reduces the brand's control over the quality of their product, it costs management a hell of a lot more than it would in-house thanks to ridiculous FFD agreements, it screws labor, etc... These agreements haven't "worked" for a long time.

if push comes to shove, who owns OUR jumpseat?

You know what I think about that. The Captain of a flight always owns his own jumpseat.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Your response to this whole thing should be "This stinks!! I'm gonna call my MEC to see what we can do about it!"

And I believe ASA pilots would come out ahead on a jumpseat pee contest due to the number of cabin seats involved, so lighten up Francis and help us out here rather than sit there and gloat!!

I wrote if someone wanted to PM me with details I would take it to my MEC. Read what I wrote, I'm on the JS, or Non Rev's side on this issue. I do not think Delta should be charging.... Sounds like SkyWest is working it from their end also.

I'm cautioning the 3,000 hour DCI Captain regarding retribution against an innocent party. After all, that innocent party can raise more heck than you can fathom and Delta backs them all the way.

Better to figure out how to help your JS and Non Revs. After all, if you ever wanted to come to DL, they can help. (Admittedly that is a big IF with this NWA deal)

 

[JoeMerchant]

I would argue that the whole arrangement doesn't "work" at all. It destroys the brand image, it reduces the brand's control over the quality of their product, it costs management a hell of a lot more than it would in-house thanks to ridiculous FFD agreements, it screws labor, etc... These agreements haven't "worked" for a long time.

I agree.... and ALPA screwed up when they allowed outsourcing in the first place......However we now have it.... and the regionals rely on the mainline, while the mainline rely's on the regionals to provide feed..... particularily with the international flights.... The wouldn't be profitable without the feed from us...... It takes BOTH sides now to make a legacy network carrier work....

How long would Delta or NWA stay afloat without the regional feed?

If the mainline employees don't have to pay on us, then we shouldn't have to pay on them...... If we are going to pay on them, then they should pay on us.... That is the fair way to handle this.....

 

[USCtrojan]

SkyWest

Skywest has the most to do with this whole thing. Look at all the time and effort going into rearranging this pass benefits thing. Delta has spent some more money on non-revving.....Fact of the matter is, SkyWest does not want ASA, a Union Airline to have ANYTHING better than their Non-union darling. Pass Benefits on Delta the way they used to be was much better. And free.

Trojan

 

[pdub20s]

But what can we as pilot groups do to combat this issue?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

But what can we as pilot groups do to combat this issue?

Start threads on F.I. and say how much we need to stick together.

 

[CrownandCoke]

I may be wrong, but doesn't 9E ride for free on NW these days?? I am aware that you have to pay if you list for first class, however, my friends over there tell me that it is free to list and fly in Y class.

you nailed it, Noise. And there is no $50 registration fee either.

 

[DOVPILOT]

Just jumpseat.

You can't say it any simpler than that, well said.

 

[SoberIrishman]

Charging one pilot group and not charging the other on each side of this fence is simply wrong, and charging for the jumpseat is WORSE!

The dilution of priority on each carrier is fair since for example ASA is no longer wholly owned.

The SIMPLE solution which I think may help placate this pilot group would be to trash the segment fees, and award a small number of special vacation passes each year to the DCI guys. Possibly something like 2 or 3 S2C's for example.

This would be a nice gesture from mainline to show at least some small appreciation for delivering their passengers in their thousands to their destinations.

ASA also lost the ability to purchase family fares (20% discount off positive space). Is this not a revenue loss for mainline perhaps?

And, to cap it all off, ASA also was removed from the ability to purchase ID 90's on any other airline!

Most of the DAL pilots that come on my jumpseat are not even aware of these new "benefits", and they don't seem to care anyway!

HOW CAN WE GET THE WORD OUT TO DELTA MANAGEMENT TO EXPRESS OUR DISAPPOINTMENT WITH SUCH A ONE SIDED AGREEMENT?

Remember, not just the pilots are affected. Think about the lowly paid commuting flight attendant! This causes them real hardship.

 

[B727FA]

FWIW--Directly from buddy of mine in Res/Sales at DL:
====================================
Rumors rumors rumors. There continue to be lots of rumors circulating about additional fees/charges for non-rev travel and buddy passes. At this point they are all just rumors and no changes have been made to any policies. Also as far as I’ve heard there is nothing in the works at this time to change that.
====================================

Who knows?

 

[John Pennekamp]

I don't see where the problem is. Start denying Delta pilots and I guarantee the word will get out and their pilot group will bitch enough to get Delta to change their poilicy. This really is a bad thing Delta is doing and I say rub it in their face till they change it. Just has to be done. If this is true, and I am going to find out if it is, then there will be no more Delta pilots riding along on my flights.

I've found that I've been very weight limited lately. I've been getting releases with maxes of 66/77 to places like MYR and PFN and have lots of heavy bags.

Since the Delta gate agents over on D rarely bring us the releases any more, I've gotten used to going to the gate and getting my own. I discovered that if you look over the agent's shoulder, it shows all of the non-revs listed and their priorities. I generally do my best to provide a max that gets all of the S3s on. Priority below that usually doesn't make it. Same goes for jumpseaters. Of course, most ASA jumpseaters will non-rev on an ASA flight rather than j/s due to the new higher priority. Sorry Delta folks. Maybe you should convince your management to rethink the policy. Don't a lot of you commute on ASA?

 

[SoberIrishman]

This is true, but even though we are many times "weight limited" we always try to accommodate all non revenue passengers. There are a lot of mainline commuters on DCI.

The fact that DAL now travels S3C on DCI will cause those unfortunate commuters to be bumped. There is no doubt about that.

All CA's should be encouraged to protect the jumpseat at all costs. The path we should never take is to use the jumpseat privilege in an inappropriate way to deny anyone a ride to work or home!

We do need to get the word out to all PPR holders, and perhaps management will eventually listen!

 

[John Pennekamp]

I wrote if someone wanted to PM me with details I would take it to my MEC. Read what I wrote, I'm on the JS, or Non Rev's side on this issue. I do not think Delta should be charging.... Sounds like SkyWest is working it from their end also.

So tell us what influence a probationary FO who is well known as one of the chief RJDC supporters has to get DALPA to change, lol. If your head gets any bigger, it's not going to fit in that new hat.

I'm cautioning the 3,000 hour DCI Captain regarding retribution against an innocent party. After all, that innocent party can raise more heck than you can fathom and Delta backs them all the way.

Sorry, pal, but lots more DAL people commute on ASA and the other DCIs than the other way around. In fact, doesn't DCI still operate a majority of the Delta code? If a jumpseat war ensues, I think mainline will suffer much worse. Maybe DALPA should avert this before it becomes a crisis. Of course, as long as pilot haters like General Lee abound, we are locked in a graveyard spiral toward all out war.

Better to figure out how to help your JS and Non Revs. After all, if you ever wanted to come to DL, they can help. (Admittedly that is a big IF with this NWA deal)

We don't have the power. Dalpa does. The ball is in your court. Don't wait for a "good faith" move from us, because you won't be getting it.

As for your veiled threat that a war will keep us from getting hired at Delta, I'd submit that Delta probably isn't going to be doing much hiring after these mergers go. Those of us at ASA had better dig in for the long haul and get what we deserve, not just hope to leave for greener pastures.

And Fins, if you get furloughed (God forbid, I wish that on no one), and become one of us again, I think you will agree with me. I'll be fighting for you too.

 

[pdub20s]

YES! protect the jumpseat. work all weights around the Pilot/FA/ and ACM AWU