CHQ, FREEDOM, and ASA pilots need to stick together on this!!

[John Pennekamp]

I thought the alleged charge to an ASA pilot on a DL flight was a gate / software error having to do with the PPR number. If this is not the case, PM me and I will follow up. I need dates, places, flights, all the details possible. You are correct, there should be NO charge for the JS.

We are being charged the non rev rate to jumpseat because Delta's policy is to check in passriders for the jumpseat using the PPR number.

According to SH, they don't know how to fix the "glitch" and have no time frame of doing so. So yes, we're being charged to ride "your" jumpseat.

 

[John Pennekamp]

It doesn't make sense and you would be singing a different tune if you were still living on the other side of the tracks.....

My point exactly. How quickly we forget where we came from...

 

[JoeMerchant]

So we get rid of all those pesky passengers? Can we let AirTran try this strategy first?

You are correct that in a fee for departure world under a bankruptcy proof contract, passengers are just a headache.

This disconnect is yet another of the myriad of reasons why airlines should not outsource flying. We should not be on separate teams, with separate goals.

Fins, the passengers are the root cause of this mess.... They demand first class service for free.... Ticket prices have been falling for 30 years.....

I have no sympathy.... They are getting what they paid for....

I agree with you about the "outsourcing"..... but ALPA has lost that battle..... Now we are on different sides of that fence, and we will both defend our side of the fence..... The winner will be management......

 

[PCL_128]

I always argued in favor of the profession and professionalism. Taking our woes out on passengers does not help our cause. We get paid to fly someone else's airplanes safely, efficiently, and by the rules. If we have a beef with management I'm all for meeting them at the Courthouse, or the picket line; but the front line of the battle will not be some poor passenger just trying to get home on a ticket they paid for.

I can't believe this, but I'm actually going to have to agree with Joe on this one. Sometimes it takes making the pax suffer to effect change. The ASA contract fight is a perfect example. Did the slowdown and write-up campaign towards the end of the contract fight cause a lot of headaches for the pax? Yep, I'm sure it did. But in the end, it's what got them their new contract. If management insists on treating the employees like crap and forcing them to pay for something that they haven't previously been required to pay for, then I can't blame them for trying to fly slow and make the money up. Management needs to understand that there are unintended consequences for treating your employees this way. I understand that you're trying to protect your company, but the feeder guys are already underpaid, and you can't expect them to just take another hit to their income by being forced to pay to get to work.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Jeesh guys, read before you reply.

 

[~~~^~~~]

WHO took a 50% paycut?

"They" did. Read it again.

 

[JoeMerchant]

My error in editing - it was unclear. I did not take a 50% pay cut. But my point was, those who have are more concerned with their pay than non rev fees.

They may care if the DCI carriers slow down and harm Delta passengers...... That isn't something that Delta needs right now..... Maybe this fire should prevented rather than allow it to become another out of contol wild fire..... A little prevention goes a long way......

 

[~~~^~~~]

PCL: Come on now. Put your money where your mouth is. After two TA's shot down, crap wages for FO's, attempted 90 seat scope, a couple of hostages and I've read nothing about AirTran pilots putting pressure on their Company.

 

[JoeMerchant]

"They" did. Read it again.

I read it, and I understand what you said....... They will take more paycuts if DCI pilots do something that hurts Delta Air Lines......

The paycut that a senior Delta pilot took is more than most regional captains make in a year, and is more than a new hire regional makes 3 years.... Don't use that as an excuse........

 

[JoeMerchant]

PCL: Come on now. Put your money where your mouth is. After two TA's shot down, crap wages for FO's, attempted 90 seat scope, a couple of hostages and I've read nothing about AirTran pilots putting pressure on their Company.

If they did, the Air Tran TA would get settled real quick fins..... It does work.....

 

[PCL_128]

PCL: Come on now. Put your money where your mouth is. After two TA's shot down, crap wages for FO's, attempted 90 seat scope, a couple of hostages and I've read nothing about AirTran pilots putting pressure on their Company.

You're preaching to the choir, my friend.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Joe - can not believe a Captain is talking about harming the passengers in his care. Regardless of the crap this profession dishes out, our fight has to be waged in the Courthouses and the Picket Lines.

Delta is whacking CMR because it is contractually restricted elsewhere. Delta would like to make more cuts right now. If a contractor were in material breach it would give Delta an excuse to do what they are inclined to do anyway.

 

[rtmcfi]

Mgmnt speaks only one language...$$
We need to speak with them in a language they understand. Pax taking their money elsewhere speaks clearly.

 

[PCL_128]

Joe - can not believe a Captain is talking about harming the passengers in his care. Regardless of the crap this profession dishes out, our fight has to be waged in the Courthouses and the Picket Lines.

We've tried that fight over and over again, Fins. The courthouses are on management's side, and we can't even get to the picket lines because of the NMB and yes, the courthouses. The fight that works is the fight on the line.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe - can not believe a Captain is talking about harming the passengers in his care. Regardless of the crap this profession dishes out, our fight has to be waged in the Courthouses and the Picket Lines.

A picket line doesn't harm passengers?

I'm sorry fins, but "work to rule" is extremely effective.....

I can't believe you are siding with rude cheap passengers who think you make too much money....

There is always collatoral damage in any war.....

Nobody is talking about "harming" passengers.... in fact, things are extremely safe during a "WOE" campaign....

Sorry, but you guys riding for free on my airplane, while I have to pay to ride on your airplane doesn't sit well with most DCI pilots..... Show me that ALPA can actually do something that promotes unity for a change....This isn't doing it....

 

[~~~^~~~]

I've got no problem with "by the book." What I objected to is a Captain saying he was going to intentionally fly off plan to try to increase block enough to pay for his personal travel. That is unprofessional, and potentially dangerous, given what he operates.

If he wants to fly at .70 and that is what the airline says saves fuel, more power to him. (or less power to him, as the case may be).... meanwhile at .70 AirTran will complain and Southwest will get cleared to fly over us at 410 and .85 burning hedged fuel

Joe - I agree you should not have to pay to fly on DL. It is dumb and causes more problems than it fixes. You know how ASA used to have many managers trying to justify promotions? Well Delta's got them too and someone came up with this Award of Excellence winner. Have your Rep work on negotiating something, I know that on the DL side there are people taking up the JS issue for YOUR pilots.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I've got no problem with "by the book." What I objected to is a Captain saying he was going to intentionally fly off plan to try to increase block enough to pay for his personal travel.

If he wants to fly at .70 and that is what the airline says saves fuel, more power to him. (or less power to him, as the case may be)

.... meanwhile at .70 AirTran will complain and Southwest will get cleared to fly over us at 410.

Nobody is really talking about "flying off course"..... There are many more ways to make it up..... How about an ATR filed at 210 to AGS.....

"Work to rule" would inconvenience your Delta passengers...... or as you say "harm" them..... Would you support that? How about we just put a stop to this before it gets out of hand..... That would be better for ALL parties.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe - I agree you should not have to pay to fly on DL. It is dumb and causes more problems than it fixes. You know how ASA used to have many managers trying to justify promotions? Well Delta's got them too and someone came up with this Award of Excellence winner. Have your Rep work on negotiating something, I know that on the DL side there are people taking up the JS issue for YOUR pilots.

..... I suspect the Delta MEC is trying to avoid a jumpseat war if they are really do anything..... As far as the non-rev issue, our MEC can't negotiate with Delta management...... remember that little lawsuit thing that you supported...... It would have to be the Delta MEC that does something.... The ASA pilots will just take things into their own hands....

My management agrees that this is a stupid policy..... it wasn't their idea.......In fact, Skywest had to fight to prevent Delta people from having priority on ASA/Skywest aircraft.....

 

[~~~^~~~]

As a resolution to that litigation mechanisms were built into ALPA National's procedures. If any of these rumored mergers take place they will have plenty to talk about.

 

[JoeMerchant]

As a resolution to that litigation mechanisms were built into ALPA National's procedures. If any of these rumored mergers take place they will have plenty to talk about.

On that point I agree..... I think some things of value were gained.... Time will tell.....

However my point was regarding your point that the pass issue should be negotiated by the ASA MEC...As you are well aware, the ASA MEC can only negotiate with ASA/Skywest management according to ALPA.... ASA/Skywest management would gladly agree to allowing us to fly free on Delta, or to charging Delta employees to ride on ASA.... They aren't the problem here.....

 

[doug_or]

We are being charged the non rev rate to jumpseat because Delta's policy is to check in passriders for the jumpseat using the PPR number.

According to SH, they don't know how to fix the "glitch" and have no time frame of doing so. So yes, we're being charged to ride "your" jumpseat.

After it became clear that there was no way around the glitch in the short run the SkyWest J/S coordinator made some kind of stink and now we ride for free until the glitch is fixed. Have you talked to yours? If not, make sure he has talked to ours, maybe y'all can get the same. Its not as good our old bennies, but it beats the hell out of paying for the jump.

 

[JoeMerchant]

After it became clear that there was no way around the glitch in the short run the SkyWest J/S coordinator made some kind of stink and now we ride for free until the glitch is fixed. Have you talked to yours? If not, make sure he has talked to ours, maybe y'all can get the same. Its not as good our old bennies, but it beats the hell out of paying for the jump.

Doug,

Same thing here.... ASA/Skywest management are trying to stop this, and it has been postponed yet again....It is now supposed to go into affect on Jan 15, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it change again.....

As to the original poster, if the price has come down to .7 cents per mile, that means things are moving in the right direction.... It was supposed to be 1 cent per mile.....

Let's ALL (ASA/Skywest/Mesa/CHQ/XJT/PCL) put pressure on Delta to not charge us to non-rev.... Let's do it with or without ALPA......

 

[Jack Mehoff]

Edward Rooney?

Rooney Eats it!

 

[wms]

Every Delta employee or DCI employee has to pay $50 a year for passes. I guess I am paying for my jumpseat too...

Bye Bye--General Lee

If we jumpseat and then flow back we pay the non-rev fee. It's not the same.

 

[rogerwilcoout]

Got a email today about a change in flight benefits. WE(all the above) now have to pay to "non-rev" on delta. $5 + .007 per mile one-way($11 from MCO-JFK). i know its not a lot, but that bull********************. IF they are looking for a way to "nickel and dime" then delta is going about it allll wrong. We need to stand up and complain to MGT about this and maybe delta will listen if ASA, Freedom, and CHQ all agree that it is unfair.... And if nothing is done, then we'll have to use the power of the pen(write-ups) and follow suit with United pilots until Delta gets the hint.

I don't see where the problem is. Start denying Delta pilots and I guarantee the word will get out and their pilot group will bitch enough to get Delta to change their poilicy. This really is a bad thing Delta is doing and I say rub it in their face till they change it. Just has to be done. If this is true, and I am going to find out if it is, then there will be no more Delta pilots riding along on my flights.

 

[~~~^~~~]

That will probably get more interesting than you want it to, real quick.

 

[buscap]

That will probably get more interesting than you want it to, real quick.

Your response to this whole thing should be "This stinks!! I'm gonna call my MEC to see what we can do about it!"

And I believe ASA pilots would come out ahead on a jumpseat pee contest due to the number of cabin seats involved, so lighten up Francis and help us out here rather than sit there and gloat!!

 

[Leroy Smith]

Rooney Eats it!

Save Ferris!

 

[RJidiot]

I know the change in policy blows, but your own management is who you should be talking to. They could have eaten the increase, but they choose to pass it along, just like they do with rising insurance costs every year.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I know the change in policy blows, but your own management is who you should be talking to. They could have eaten the increase, but they choose to pass it along, just like they do with rising insurance costs every year.

Wrong answer..... It is Delta that implemented this policy....I don't want my carrier to pick up the cost..... Unless the mainline pilots want to start paying to fly on us..... That would be fair don't ya think......????