chemtrails

[siucavflight]

Typhoon, i am suprized to hear you mention class.

 

[Denver130]

My Typhoon1244 reply

You said "this is a picture of a Continental 767 airliner"

It has no markings, you don't know if its a military jet or a commercial jet.

You said "if contrails and clouds don't form below twelve thousand feet, then why do we have fog?

We are discussing fog, where discussing jet contrails.

You said 'You've chosen to misinterpret NASA and NOAA documents in a way that supports your twisted, irrational beliefs."

Its more intelligent to quote a scientific source than quote an experience. Try it once.

 

[Denver130]

I have to fix my typing

You said "if contrails and clouds don't form below twelve thousand feet, then why do we have fog? "

We are not discussing fog. Thats another fruit. Were discussing jet contrails.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: I have to fix my typing

We are not discussing fog. Thats another fruit. Were discussing jet contrails.

With the exception of the CO2 content, they're the same thing, big guy.

Denver, leave this topic alone. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

[414Flyer]

But fog is a type of cloud though, and you did say clouds form between 12-15 thousand feet. Can you logically and rationally explain this statement.

Explain how you came up with 12,000 ft. You still refuse to answer.

How do you know that plane is not marked?

 

[Typhoon1244]

How do you know that plane is not marked?

Because if you can't see something, it must not be there. Remember 414, we're not talking about Earth logic. We're talking about Denver130 logic.

P.S. I'm assuming it's a Continental 7-6 based on the location and what we can see of the paint job. I suppose it could be Delta.

 

[j41driver]

This has got to be a joke....nobody is this dumb. I mean really, chemgoo??? Chemgoo?? You have got to be freaking kidding.

 

[Northern Lights]

Now they're blaming the SoCal fires on chemtrails...

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001954.html

L.A. and San Diego are encircled with wild fires. Unbelievable as it is, most appear to be arson. The problem is that the weather is so hot and dry everything is vulnerable.

This follows 2 weeks of heavy chemtrails. Last Wednesday the trails were so heavy the rainbow effects were clearly seen in the clouds...

 

[siucavflight]

Northern lights,
It seems that denver might have a point given the link that you posted. In this case it seems like the chemtrails that these military aircraft is H20 used to put out the fire.

 

[siucavflight]

sorry to double post
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/report.shtml
Denver what do you think of this strange formation in the sky, Chem goo or a holding pattern?

 

[HueyPilot]

Chemtrail logic

I can only sit here and laugh at this thread. I know better than to argue now (although I do on occassion just to have fun). The whole quote ... "we're not talking fog, we're talking clouds" or whatever he said...that right there is what I ran into all the time.

I tried to explain MY observations while flying Lear 35s all over the country. And I ran into the same logic...."we're not talking about your silly Learjets, we're talking about chemplanes".

HA HA!

 

[Aerosmith]

I am absolutely fascinated by these mental teletubbies. This is another form of religious fundamentalism, albeit harmless. This is not about facts or science. It is about faith. Bombard them with facts and they close their eyes,stick their fingers in the ears and shout Beelzebub.
Thank you so much for the entertainment, Denver130. It beats the religious TV channels(the fruitcake with his hideous wife, tons of makeup)
Absolutely marvelous!

BTW, did you ever come up with an answer to the 12000´ question? HAHA

 

[jayreynolds]

aerosmith wrote,
"This is another form of religious fundamentalism, albeit harmless. This is not about facts or science. It is about faith."

True about chemmania notbeing about fact or science. True about it being a form of faith-based belief. Consider how extremists reside in every faith.

In my opinion, the probability exists that as time goes on and frustration increases, a radical element will arise, selected naturally favoring the most ignorant and hopeless.

Consider how this has already taken place:

http://worldzone.net/international/chickiedeb/cgi/newwave.shtml

I have reported numerous terrorist threats already by chemtrail believers:

http://pub31.ezboard.com/fcontrails...ageRange?topicID=277.topic&start=101&stop=107

Realize that these nutjobs are real, and they are out there looking up as you fly over. Sobering thought, eh?

Jay Reynolds

 

[Denver130]

Typhoon1244 #2

Concerning Chem Tail at www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails

You said:

1. "this is a picture of a Continental 767 airliner"

then you said

2. "I'm assuming it's a Continental 7-6 based on the location and what we can see of the paint job."

3. "with a contrail forming about fifty feet aft of each engine."

I would be hard pressed to say from looking at the bottom of that jet, in the photo Chem Tail that the jet is a Continental 767 airliner. it appears gray. Gray is gray. The color is to obscure to identify an airliner with it. I've seen military jets on Wings and at air shows and on movies that appear gray but I can't say for certain the nature of this plane. I'd have to leave the identification part a mystery. It could be military or it could be civilian.

Also, you use the word "assume". Your guessing. You more evidence besides guessing!.

What is factual is this.

Austin is arid, dry, and hot with typically clear skys and the locals will tell you point blank that jet contrails are not a part of the scenery.

Its so hot and dry in Austin that by the beginning of May the grass has browned out or is dead, the creek beds are dry and the animals are thirsty. Its a perfect place to ask some scientific questions.

Since it was 100 degrees out that particular day when I took the photo lets do some math using Fahrenheit and the 3.5 temperature decrease per thousand that you gave to me.

3.5 times 40,000ft = 140
100 degrees - 140 = -40F (which is when converted to Celsius -40 as well)

Therefore that jet would have to be 40,000ft to form jet contrails.
(remember that NASA and NOAA us the -40 figure for jet contrail formation)

Also, according to NASA and NOAA you need high humidity to the point of saturation (they usually use a figure of 70% or more)

However, in this arid climate on a normal hot day its between 5 and 10 percent humidity.

So my question is: Is it a normal jet contrail or a chemical trail?

I don’t think were seeing a jet contrail because:

1. Its too low. A 20X optical zoom would never photograph a jet that close at 40K feet.
2. Humidity is too low.
3. Temperature is too hot if the jet is at a low altitude.

There is one other thing about this situation. If it was a normal jet contrail, under Austin conditions , (high temp and low humidity), then the trail would not persist very long. If in Houston, a study shows that the average duration of a jet contrail is 30 seconds under high ground heat and high humidity, you wouldn’t even notice it under the Austin conditions of high ground heat and extremely low humidity. You would barely notice any trail on film as you filmed it.

Therefore, you have every right to call that jet trail in that photo into question.

What you should see is what I saw last week in Austin, a jet high in the sky reflecting off the sun with no visible trail coming out the back.

Could it be ahh.. ahhh.. (your going to hate me, abuse me and scoff at me) a CHEMTRAIL? I know what your going to say before you type it.

1. There’s no such thing as "chemtrails"
(even thought the government admits the program exists.)
2. That is just a commercial jet airliner because nobody would ever question my judgment as a pilot.
3. Denver130's last name is Gump.
4. Denver130 twists the truth.
5. Denver130 is developing a religion
6. I've seen low altitude jet contrails in the desert. Who needs high altitudes, high humidity and extremely cold temperatures? Thats only for mathematicians. We pilots think differently.
7. We would never question anything unusual anyway unless my wife cooks me grass.

If chemical engineers at ConocoPhillips with no background in the chemtrail issue can call what they see a chemical spill in the air, it might not be a bad idea to step off of your plane, open up your mind and look up at the sky.

I'm telling you the truth... people are being spoofed by the appearance of something that does not appear "normal" to them. A pilot pat answer is not a good enough explanation. A pilots assumptions are not good enough answers.

Observe it, study it, compare it with known science, then you'll come up with a different picture.

 

[414Flyer]

And again you are trying to correllate conditions on the ground, to what is in the air.

Austin is not arid and dry, nor is it ever 5-10 percent humidity there. Thats conditions in the desert SW, during the heat of the day, on the driest of days. To say that is normal weather in Austin, is really bizarre and ignorant. I dont know if it has ever been that dry of humidity there.

Actually right now it is 88 percent humidity in Austin. Do some basic research before looking stupid.

I have lived in Austin and San Antonio. Contrails are commonplace there.

Do you expect that airliners are supposed to have their company logo on the undersides of the wings, visible for miles and miles?
Most all aircraft are light colored.

And yes, if there is a 757/767, its a pretty good bet it will be civilian.

How do you know the humidity is that low at high elevations? Do you realize thin cold air, does not need much moisture at all before it comes locally saturated?

Your friends were probably pulling your leg about "chemical spill"

No, you compare with known science and show it is anything but water up there.

 

[bigD]

Austin is arid, dry, and hot with typically clear skys and the locals will tell you point blank that jet contrails are not a part of the scenery.

You really need to lay off the pipe before posting, sir. As a local, I can assure you that there is nothing dry about this place. In the hot months, the air is humid, and the sky is almost always covered in cumulous or towering cumulous. As humid as Houston, no, but definitely not 5-10% as a rule.

And there are contrails around here all the time - anyone that says that contrails are not part of the scenerey simply isn't paying any attention to the sky.

 

[dash8driver]

did he ever answer that 12,000' question yet?

 

[414Flyer]

Nope...No answer about 12,000 ft.

I also would love to hear where 5-10 percent humidity for Austin comes from too

 

[dash8driver]

obviously this guy has no concept of temp/dewpoint relationship with cloud/fog/contrail/visible moisture formation. he probably thinks that in order to be humid, it must feel like you're in hawaii.

either that or he's just flamebaiting everyone...which is what i'm starting to think because he's evading questions and really... who can be this ignorant and gullible to believe such far fetched stories.

 

[414Flyer]

I admit I have wondered the same myself. Someone cant possibly be that lacking in weather or aircraft understanding, until I read chemmie websites and it is commonplace.

But I still wonder