Chemtrails: holiday update

[Denver130]

USA Today Quote 7

"Exasperated by persistent questions, the Environmental Protection Agency, NASA, the Federal Aviation Administration and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration joined forces last fall to publish a fact sheet explaining the science of contrail formation. A few months earlier, the Air Force had put out its own fact sheet, which tries to refute its opponents' arguments point by point."

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Would the government ever lie to you?

Johnny Cockran, the great defense attorney once said. "If it doesn't fit, then acquit."

If temperatures don't fit, or if the humidity doesn't fit, or the altitude doesn't fit, then question what you see. Photograph it, take notes, take temp and humidity readings. Call the airport to get cloud ceilings as altitude reference points.

If it doesn't fit...question it. In this case, its still a big question.

 

[Denver130]

USA Today Quote 8

"If you try to pin these people down and refute things, it's, 'Well, you're just part of the conspiracy,' " says atmospheric scientist Patrick Minnis of NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. "Logic is not exactly a real selling point for most of them."

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People are smarter than they look at times. The FAA is quick to point out that the chemtrail issue is a part of some big conspiracy thing. However, people like Tell, and Kucinich are not conspiracy theorists. One's a scientist and ones a politician.

Besides that, don't you think that the FAA should treat all reports seriously? Suppose that low altitude white stuff was from a terrorist origin. That alone should cause the FAA to take all reports seriously, back up their data with scientific evidence from the region where the complaint came from and give provide a follow up after the report comes in.

 

[Denver130]

USA Today Quote 9

"Conspiracy nonsense," snorts Kenneth Sassen, an atmospheric scientist at the University of Utah. "These things are at 30,000 to 40,000 feet in the atmosphere. They're tiny particles. They're not going to affect anyone."

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How would Kenneth Sassen, an atmospheric scientist at the University of Utah know that citizen observations are between 30,000ft and 40,000f? All she is stating is a fact of jet contrail physics.

Denver, can you think of one shred of evidence that would lead you to believe that the trails people are seeing is below the altitudes where most jet contrails form? YES

If you can find jet trails below low hanging clouds on an overcast day, then that puts her explanation into QUESTION. Except for cirrus clouds which are high altitude clouds, most cloud formation is generally in the 10K to 15K altitudes. Here in Houston, however, we get a lot of low altitude stratus clouds in the 2K to 4K range. One phone call to the news station or airport can give you an altitude reference point for you to gage in order to determine if the altitude is right for jet contrail formation below the clouds. If the clouds are not at 30,000ft plus, you have a case for chemtrails. (that is where Kenny Boy says they form folks! Believe it or not!)

If you don't have high altitudes, then you won’t have extremely cold temperatures. If you don't have extremely cold temperatures, then ice crystals cannot form. If ice crystals cannot form, then the likelihood is that you won’t be looking at anything. Therefore, what other explanation is there for what you’re observing? Chemtrails! Why? Because chemical trails do not need high altitudes, cold temperatures or extreme humidity.

Denver, do you have any electronic evidence of jet trails under the clouds to validate your point? YES

http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/GrandRapids1.html
http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/Houston16.html
http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/dec1102.html

 

[Blue Dude]

Well, if all else fails you can try a Sonny's BBQ. It's not Carolina pork but it's a lot better than fast food.

Anyone try to have BBQ shipped? Some Carolina BBQ joints have a nice little online market going.

 

[Jepp2Jet]

I've heard that there are approach fixes around Kansas City called something like "TASTY, BARBQ, RIBBS"

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Also I'm looking foreward to some BBQ and Blues in the near future at Famous Daves in MSP

Your close, at KMCI.
the approach is ILS Rwy 1R SPICY> BARBQ> RIBBS.

rib?""how much for one rib?"

 

[CDNJetPilot]

clouds

Denver,

I looked at your pics again. How and why do you think those contrails are below the cirrus? They aren't. Cirrus is opaque and you can see through it. You can clearly see the the cirrus below the contrail.

 

[NJA Capt]

Re: USA Today Quote 9

Denver, do you have any electronic evidence of jet trails under the clouds to validate your point? YES

Sorry Denver, all your pictures are bogus. You can and do see contrails THROUGH thin mid level cloud layers. You can even see the SHADOW of a contrail on these layers. Need an experiment? Hold a white plastic bag, of the grocery variety, between you and the moon on a dark night. Can you see the Moon through the plastic? YES. Does that mean the Moon is between you and your plastic? NO.

Here are some other considerations:
*If the government were trying to "chemtrail the country" don't you think they would make it invisible, not bright white? And keep it from lingering for a few hours?

*Winds in the upper atmosphere are in up to and exceed 100+ knots and change dirction. IF a plane were spraying at 30,000' there is NOT WAY to target an area with "dust."

*Crop dusters spray pesticides on plants from an altitude of less than 6' to get coverage. Spraying something at 30,000' would be like adding a drop of food coloring to the ocean and expecting it to change color.

Aircraft do cross paths at the same flight levels. Just not at the same time. It's not against FAA rules. Sometimes these "crossing" occur several thousand feet apart vertically, but appear to be through one another when observed from below.




Say it with me, "They are all C-O-N-D-E-N-S-A-T-I-O-N Trails."

 

[CDNJetPilot]

...

Why even try anymore. I think we should all just not worry about this person. People can only convince themselves. His NASA research and claims of photos that have low contrails have set his mind in stone. Which is fine. We all have our beliefs.

Denver... read this for even more stuff to ponder.........

-air at 30C holds 3 times as much as air at 12C

-which means if the humidity at the surface is 30%, and the temp is 30C, and the absolute humidity is the same at the surface and at 30000 ft, and the temp at 30000 feet is 12C (which it wouldn't be), then the rel humidity up there would be 90%

-which goes to show that the humidity at the surface has absolutely no bearing on the humidity at altitude

-and chances are the rel humidity higher up will be MUCH higher than it is at the ground

 

[VaB]

What if he's right? Aren't we all gonna feel silly.

 

[enigma]

Re: ...

Clem Mikeska BBQ in central Texas is rumored to obtain their beef from a chemtrail free zone in Colorado. This could account for the sublime taste of Clem's BBQ, or maybe the flavor comes from the invisible chemgoo that covers the Mesquite wood stacked outside the pit. I figure that the goo must be invisible because no self respecting conspiritor would allow such visible evidence.

Speakin of beef, has anyone ever observed a feed lot runoff pond from the air? Those ponds have a distinct plum color. The airport at Clovis NM is surrounded by such ponds, in fact the ponds are directly in line with an approach path for Cannon AFB, obviously the purple is evidence of the chemgoo dropped by F111's. Since they retired the Ardvarks, the color hasn't changed, I guess they must be goo-ing from T38's now.

apologies to Eagleflip
enigma

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: USA Today Quote 7

Call the airport to get cloud ceilings as altitude reference points.

Yeah, call "the airport."

(Moron...) Denver, each of your posts demonstrates less intelligence than the one before it. Quit while you're ahead.

 

[skyking1976]

Re: Re: USA Today Quote 7

Yeah, call "the airport."

(Moron...) Denver, each of your posts demonstrates less intelligence than the one before it. Quit while you're ahead.

Ahead? Really now. I don't think he ever got started....

 

[secks]

Denver130:

Sorry to hear about your health problems.

The health issues you and some of your neighbors have been experiencing are not necessarily 1) caused by airborne chemicals and 2) statistically abnormal when compared with other communitities across the nation. Remember, in order to make this case, you've got to show that these suspicious atmoshpheric phenomenon cause (or are highly correlated with) health problems. Today, this would be a practically impossible task. Why? You'd have to collect data on chemtrail frequency nationwide. Unfortunately, there's no nationwide, standardized, scientific method for doing that at the moment.

As to the existence of chemtrails, here are a few thoughts:

1) If there exist documented cases of "contrails" existing where themodynamics does not predict their formation, then logically either it isn't a "contrail" or thermodynamics needs some tweaking.

2) If we assume that themodynamic theory is always correct in predicting contrail development, and these documented cases of abnormal "contrails" do exist, then these are not contrails. Then what are they? The only way we'll know for sure is to collect samples from these abnormal contrails and compare them against samples from normal contrails.

Can you show us some evidence of contrails existing where thermodynamics does not predict their formation? You'll need to show precise atmospheric conditions at the "contrail", then an official set of criteria for the development of contrails.

If it does turn out to be some sort of spraying sponsored by the military, I wouldn't be too surprised. The sheer volume of information the public doesn't know (or want to know) regarding certain elements of the gov't is beyond measure: JFK, TWA 800, UFOs, etc.

Anyway, in order for this chemtrail business to emerge from the fringes of conspiracy theories, precise, verifiable evidence must be collected and made public.

 

[Typhoon1244]

I think I get it: Denver130 is really secks, jerking our chains...

 

[Eagleflip]

What does Secks think about BBQ?

 

[Denver130]

Chemtrails Under Clouds

I was out this morning for breakfast and you wont believe what I found? You guessed it! Chemtrails under clouds. Location I-10 and Barkercypress Rd, Houston, Texas. I posted them for your review at:

http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/Houston23.html

Also, I found some interesting satellite photos of Texas this morning that I think you should review as well. Let me know what you think. They're at

http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/Houston24.html

 

[Denver130]

Chemtrails and Area 51

Chemtrails and Area 51 in Nevada have several things in common. First, the government denied both. Second, it was through the use of photography that both were investagated with. A lawyer used satellite photography to win his case against the government for workers at Area 51 who were dying from exposure to chemicals burned in trenches. And Chemtrails will be admitted too in the future do to photography and science.

I wish in my heart of hearts this Christmas
that Chemtrails was false.

But when you wake up for breakfast in the morning with chemtrails easily viewed from your kitchen window, its awfully hard to deny. But as long as you have science, and mathematics and the powers of observation, you can come to no other conclusion.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: Chemtrails and Area 51

I wish in my heart of hearts this Christmas that Chemtrails was false.

Well I have good news for you, big guy. You can stop wishing. It's been false all along!

 

[skyking1976]

Re: Chemtrails and Area 51

I wish in my heart of hearts this Christmas
that Chemtrails was false.

Merry Christmas little buddy! I called Buckley AFB and told them to activate the "Chemtrail Dispersal Orbs", you know, the ones they claim are radars... Have a chemtrail free Christmas!!

SK

 

[Northern Lights]

I wonder if Santa's reigndeer(sp?) leave chemtrails....

Merry Christmas