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Chemtrails: holiday update
- Thread starter Denver130
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Denver dude, listen to me. Between all the pilots on this board we log hundreds of thousands of hours in flight. Many of us over the places you mention, on the days you mention and take pictures on. Yet, NONE of us has EVER seen these low altitude contrails (sorry "chemtrails") that you speak of.
How could that be? We spend more time in the sky than you could possibly spend looking at it, yet we never see low altitude contrails. Why? They do not happen! Believe me dude, if I saw contrail at low altitude I would notice it!
Those pictures of so-called low altitude contrails are really high altitude contrails. Nothing out of the ordinary.
Skeezer
How could that be? We spend more time in the sky than you could possibly spend looking at it, yet we never see low altitude contrails. Why? They do not happen! Believe me dude, if I saw contrail at low altitude I would notice it!
Those pictures of so-called low altitude contrails are really high altitude contrails. Nothing out of the ordinary.
Skeezer
414Flyer
Down with Chemtrails!
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2002
- Posts
- 4,948
Re: jet contrail formation
Yes you may ask questions, but when will you start trying to answer our own pointed questions to you, instead of dodging them to protect your chemtrail religion.
1. At least where it is cold enough for the moisture to cause local saturation from the air, with the addition of the moisture from combustion.
2. As cold enough as it takes. Typically will be very cold.
3. Enough that the humidity, plus the added moisture, cause saturation of the air in that location.
But I can just see you know saying, Oh that proves my trails I see from 2000 - 12000 ft are chemtrails!
And back again in the circle.
Denver130 said:
Yes you may ask questions, but when will you start trying to answer our own pointed questions to you, instead of dodging them to protect your chemtrail religion.
1. At least where it is cold enough for the moisture to cause local saturation from the air, with the addition of the moisture from combustion.
2. As cold enough as it takes. Typically will be very cold.
3. Enough that the humidity, plus the added moisture, cause saturation of the air in that location.
But I can just see you know saying, Oh that proves my trails I see from 2000 - 12000 ft are chemtrails!
And back again in the circle.
I hope you feel guilty Denver, you are making me waste the first ten minutes of my weekend.
I believe that you posted the NOAA link to educate us on the subject of contrails. Based on that it is safe to assume that you think that those pictures that the NOAA posted are contrails. Those look the same as the "chemtrails" that you posted. The did not look pencil thin. The NOAA also said they can linger for over an hour, and studies are being conducted to see if there is an impact on the climate in areas with large concentrations of contrails (VOR's?). They also said they are nothing more than water vapor.
On the subject of low altitude contrails/"chemtrails", I have nearly 4000 hours of flight over the last 4 years. Every bit of it has been from the surface to 10,000'. I have flown all over Texas, OK, Arkansas, TN, GA, NC, SC, AL, and FL. I have never seen a contrail/"chemtrail" anywhere near me, same alt or below. The only ones I saw were way above me. What alt? Just like you, there is no way for me to accuratly guess.
usc
I believe that you posted the NOAA link to educate us on the subject of contrails. Based on that it is safe to assume that you think that those pictures that the NOAA posted are contrails. Those look the same as the "chemtrails" that you posted. The did not look pencil thin. The NOAA also said they can linger for over an hour, and studies are being conducted to see if there is an impact on the climate in areas with large concentrations of contrails (VOR's?). They also said they are nothing more than water vapor.
On the subject of low altitude contrails/"chemtrails", I have nearly 4000 hours of flight over the last 4 years. Every bit of it has been from the surface to 10,000'. I have flown all over Texas, OK, Arkansas, TN, GA, NC, SC, AL, and FL. I have never seen a contrail/"chemtrail" anywhere near me, same alt or below. The only ones I saw were way above me. What alt? Just like you, there is no way for me to accuratly guess.
usc
NOAA Pictures
I have to make a judgement on the pictures posted at NOAA.
If those pictures were taken at altitudes of 30,000 plus, then its possible those are true jet contrails and I don't have an issue with them.
If they were taken from the ground, I would have an issue because the appearance of those jet contrails is exactly what people are complaining about. And since they don't TELL us, I can't use those photos in an argument.
Find a seinor citizen in your community and ask him/her. In all the years you have lived in the community, does this look like a normal jet contrail? Grab a person off the street and show them the NOAA photos and ask them, does this look normal to you? I do it all the time. Hands down most people that I've interviewed have said NO.
Look at the chem X photo at
http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/
and you will see near the electrical pole a small tiny trail. Doe you see it? its a small, small, small trail. When your flying at altitudes of 30,000ft plus trails appear tiny not massive.
You can do the reverse. When I fly, the pilot will say at sometime, we are now cruising at 35,000ft (or similar altitude).
What do you see when you look out your window toward the ground? Massive buildings? Could you take a photo of your community at 35K and pinpoint your house? If you can you must have vision that most people dont have.
So why should I call NOAA's photos normal if they were taken from the ground as normal if jet contrails appear pencil thin normally?
The only explaination pilots give is
"it CAN happen"
"its POSSIBLE"
"it doesn't ALWAYS appear that way"
If you looking for exceptions in the rules, anything is possible. But I think you would have a stronger argument if you went outside with a camera, photographed the sky above your house so that we could see electronically what appears normal over a time frame vs looking for exceptions in the rules.
I have to make a judgement on the pictures posted at NOAA.
If those pictures were taken at altitudes of 30,000 plus, then its possible those are true jet contrails and I don't have an issue with them.
If they were taken from the ground, I would have an issue because the appearance of those jet contrails is exactly what people are complaining about. And since they don't TELL us, I can't use those photos in an argument.
Find a seinor citizen in your community and ask him/her. In all the years you have lived in the community, does this look like a normal jet contrail? Grab a person off the street and show them the NOAA photos and ask them, does this look normal to you? I do it all the time. Hands down most people that I've interviewed have said NO.
Look at the chem X photo at
http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/
and you will see near the electrical pole a small tiny trail. Doe you see it? its a small, small, small trail. When your flying at altitudes of 30,000ft plus trails appear tiny not massive.
You can do the reverse. When I fly, the pilot will say at sometime, we are now cruising at 35,000ft (or similar altitude).
What do you see when you look out your window toward the ground? Massive buildings? Could you take a photo of your community at 35K and pinpoint your house? If you can you must have vision that most people dont have.
So why should I call NOAA's photos normal if they were taken from the ground as normal if jet contrails appear pencil thin normally?
The only explaination pilots give is
"it CAN happen"
"its POSSIBLE"
"it doesn't ALWAYS appear that way"
If you looking for exceptions in the rules, anything is possible. But I think you would have a stronger argument if you went outside with a camera, photographed the sky above your house so that we could see electronically what appears normal over a time frame vs looking for exceptions in the rules.
enigma
good ol boy
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 2,279
Methinks that Denver is actually Duane Worthe and is trying to create a distraction to keep us away from the true conspiracy. Why do we allow him to perpetuate his misdirection?
Denver just in case you are not really Duane, you should go to Airliners.net and look for inflight pictures. If you look at some of them in the large mode, you might be able to see the spray apparatus.
enigma
Denver just in case you are not really Duane, you should go to Airliners.net and look for inflight pictures. If you look at some of them in the large mode, you might be able to see the spray apparatus.
enigma
USC Pilot response
You made an interesting point. You said this:
“On the subject of low altitude contrails/"chemtrails", I have nearly 4000 hours of flight over the last 4 years. Every bit of it has been from the surface to 10,000'. I have flown all over Texas, OK, Arkansas, TN, GA, NC, SC, AL, and FL. I have never seen a contrail/"chemtrail" anywhere near me, same alt or below. The only ones I saw were way above me.”
I agree 100 percent with your observation.
So when I was walking off my jet in Michigan to visit my folks and the pilot tells me that the bottom of the clouds is at 2,000ft and I step out of the airport and see all these massive white trails in X patterns underneath the clouds what am I suppose to think?
If you never see trails under 10K and admit their at higher altitudes and I am looking at trails under the clouds with a pilots confirmation of a bottom cloud ceiling of 2,000ft, wouldn’t you wonder what’s going on? Wouldn’t that defy your years of mental pictures of the sky?
Anybody can see the problem here. Its as plain as day. This validates what intelligent, concerned citizens are saying, are documenting, and are photographing every day. This is un-normal.
Mix that in a bowl of government admissions and what do you have? A chemtrail program that is real, true and factual.
You made an interesting point. You said this:
“On the subject of low altitude contrails/"chemtrails", I have nearly 4000 hours of flight over the last 4 years. Every bit of it has been from the surface to 10,000'. I have flown all over Texas, OK, Arkansas, TN, GA, NC, SC, AL, and FL. I have never seen a contrail/"chemtrail" anywhere near me, same alt or below. The only ones I saw were way above me.”
I agree 100 percent with your observation.
So when I was walking off my jet in Michigan to visit my folks and the pilot tells me that the bottom of the clouds is at 2,000ft and I step out of the airport and see all these massive white trails in X patterns underneath the clouds what am I suppose to think?
If you never see trails under 10K and admit their at higher altitudes and I am looking at trails under the clouds with a pilots confirmation of a bottom cloud ceiling of 2,000ft, wouldn’t you wonder what’s going on? Wouldn’t that defy your years of mental pictures of the sky?
Anybody can see the problem here. Its as plain as day. This validates what intelligent, concerned citizens are saying, are documenting, and are photographing every day. This is un-normal.
Mix that in a bowl of government admissions and what do you have? A chemtrail program that is real, true and factual.
Re: USC Pilot response
"Mental pictures of the sky"??? I suppose it depends on what you are smoking.
With regards to "normal" people; normal is a relative term. If I lived in Germany during the 30's and early to mid 40's I would be normal if I felt that I belonged to a superior race, and that Jews, homosexuals, and the mentally retarted should be eradicated. You hang around with conspiracy theorists who think that the government is forever trying to poison, watch, or otherwise infringe on your civil rights in varying degrees. I dont go around and interview the "man on the street", and I find it highly unlikely that you do. I have never heard of chemtrails except from you, or that wonderfully entertaining, and certifiably (sp) insane, people on Coast to Coast. What is the old addage, ask a crazy person if they are normal, and they will say yes, but everyone else is nuts. Its all relative.
If you actually surveyed a diverse cross-section of society you would find the majority are something ranging from ambivolent to completly ignorant. If you are infact asking people on the street I dont believe that you are phrasing it as normal or abnormal. You are showing people/laypersons your version of a normal contrail (the small pencil thin variety), then a "chemtrail". At that point they probably concede, for no other reason for you to leave them alone, that what they are seeing every day are what you claim to be a "chemtrail".
A question: if these "chemtrails" are being sprayed at low altitudes why arent small piston aircraft being used? Since they are slower it seems they could saturate an area much more efficiently then a large jet which has a horrible fuel burn at low altitudes.
Quit discussing these patterns. They are all in association with various navigation facilities, nothing more.
If you dont believe me then read the NOAA site that you linked to in an attempt to validate your absurd hypothesis. Actually hypothesis is a poor choice of words, since it would imply rational thought and use of the scientific method. I have yet to see you or any other chemmie demonstrate either.
You seem to have confused the words standard and normal. As the FAA, NOAA, and NASA will use the word standard to describe arbitrary values assigned to different measurements, ie. tmep, bar pressure and so on. This is done so that we pilots may have a starting point or a standard to predict how an aircraft will perfom on a given day. With standard we can calculate how the aircraft will perform on a nonstandard day (which is almost everyday). So by your rational every nonstandard day is an abnormal day. How do you get out of bed every morning??
usc
Look I am not going to restate my last post. You did not see contrails/"chemtrails" below a 2000' ceiling. Did you ask the captian why there were contrails at such a low alt. He is your expert witness, what did he say?Denver130 said:
"Mental pictures of the sky"??? I suppose it depends on what you are smoking.
With regards to "normal" people; normal is a relative term. If I lived in Germany during the 30's and early to mid 40's I would be normal if I felt that I belonged to a superior race, and that Jews, homosexuals, and the mentally retarted should be eradicated. You hang around with conspiracy theorists who think that the government is forever trying to poison, watch, or otherwise infringe on your civil rights in varying degrees. I dont go around and interview the "man on the street", and I find it highly unlikely that you do. I have never heard of chemtrails except from you, or that wonderfully entertaining, and certifiably (sp) insane, people on Coast to Coast. What is the old addage, ask a crazy person if they are normal, and they will say yes, but everyone else is nuts. Its all relative.
If you actually surveyed a diverse cross-section of society you would find the majority are something ranging from ambivolent to completly ignorant. If you are infact asking people on the street I dont believe that you are phrasing it as normal or abnormal. You are showing people/laypersons your version of a normal contrail (the small pencil thin variety), then a "chemtrail". At that point they probably concede, for no other reason for you to leave them alone, that what they are seeing every day are what you claim to be a "chemtrail".
A question: if these "chemtrails" are being sprayed at low altitudes why arent small piston aircraft being used? Since they are slower it seems they could saturate an area much more efficiently then a large jet which has a horrible fuel burn at low altitudes.
Quit discussing these patterns. They are all in association with various navigation facilities, nothing more.
If you dont believe me then read the NOAA site that you linked to in an attempt to validate your absurd hypothesis. Actually hypothesis is a poor choice of words, since it would imply rational thought and use of the scientific method. I have yet to see you or any other chemmie demonstrate either.
You seem to have confused the words standard and normal. As the FAA, NOAA, and NASA will use the word standard to describe arbitrary values assigned to different measurements, ie. tmep, bar pressure and so on. This is done so that we pilots may have a starting point or a standard to predict how an aircraft will perfom on a given day. With standard we can calculate how the aircraft will perform on a nonstandard day (which is almost everyday). So by your rational every nonstandard day is an abnormal day. How do you get out of bed every morning??
usc
Last edited:
enigma
good ol boy
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 2,279
Re: USC Pilot response
Well, the wife and kids are off to the mall and I'm slightly bored. Why else would I be here?
Anyway, Denver. If the trails you see are below two thousand feet AGL, I will suggest that you buy yourself a quality camera and take a picture of the airplane dispensing those trails. Two thousand feet is way close. Close enough to capture specific details; so you should be able to detail just which aircraft are spreading the chemgoo and how they do it.
later
enigma
Denver130 said:
Well, the wife and kids are off to the mall and I'm slightly bored. Why else would I be here?
Anyway, Denver. If the trails you see are below two thousand feet AGL, I will suggest that you buy yourself a quality camera and take a picture of the airplane dispensing those trails. Two thousand feet is way close. Close enough to capture specific details; so you should be able to detail just which aircraft are spreading the chemgoo and how they do it.
later
enigma
VNugget
suck squeeze bang blow
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2002
- Posts
- 809
Super 80
Rube Goldberg device
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2003
- Posts
- 315
VNugget,
I turn on the spray nozzles as soon as I have power. I've gotten ridden of 73 ramp rats this year alone. Next, I turn them on when I waiting the active so the aircraft behind me ingest the goo. Last week, I did a low pass over Harlem from LGA 04 spraying goo all over the place. I surprised anyone is still left alive in Riker's Island. This month the Government gave us some new stuff. They didn't say what it was, but they all had chem masks on. Now the Flu breaks out all over. I say it's a open and shut case of Big Brother infecting millions. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands think they're getting a flu shot and instead are getting a transreceiver that's capable of uplinking personal movements within the continental US.
Remember it's all a conspiracy and they really are out to get you.
In the words of Arthur Dent's nemesis, "Be afraid, be very afraid."
I turn on the spray nozzles as soon as I have power. I've gotten ridden of 73 ramp rats this year alone. Next, I turn them on when I waiting the active so the aircraft behind me ingest the goo. Last week, I did a low pass over Harlem from LGA 04 spraying goo all over the place. I surprised anyone is still left alive in Riker's Island. This month the Government gave us some new stuff. They didn't say what it was, but they all had chem masks on. Now the Flu breaks out all over. I say it's a open and shut case of Big Brother infecting millions. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands think they're getting a flu shot and instead are getting a transreceiver that's capable of uplinking personal movements within the continental US.
Remember it's all a conspiracy and they really are out to get you.
In the words of Arthur Dent's nemesis, "Be afraid, be very afraid."
mattfish42
missed the ground
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2003
- Posts
- 90
Vnugget, what are are saying should be possible (forming contrails at low alt.). However it will be dang cold outside and my union butt would call in sick that day along with everyone else.
So yes, it should be possible. And no you probably won't see it because most of us are smart enough to stay indoors if it got that cold!
Skeezer
PS Denver do NOT use my post as proof that your so called "low altitude trails" are really chemtrails because all your pictures are of HIGH altitude contrails. Please get that through your thick skull.
So yes, it should be possible. And no you probably won't see it because most of us are smart enough to stay indoors if it got that cold!
Skeezer
PS Denver do NOT use my post as proof that your so called "low altitude trails" are really chemtrails because all your pictures are of HIGH altitude contrails. Please get that through your thick skull.
Typhoon1244
Member in Good Standing
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2002
- Posts
- 3,078
Look at this...VNugget said:
Given the right temperature, pressure, and humidity, you can have contrails at any altitude.
Wankel7
It's a slippery slope...
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Posts
- 1,487
Well, I opened this thread again.
I just thought I would show what happens. As a warning to the future posters...
www.aztechrotary.com/files/planeforumpic.jpg
Wankel
I just thought I would show what happens. As a warning to the future posters...
www.aztechrotary.com/files/planeforumpic.jpg
Wankel
the pilots response
The fact is simple.
The Pilot said the bottom of the cloud level was 2,000ft that day.
He ought to know....he flew into it....he has gauges.... I don't see why your upset about his answer.
What it gives me is a brief standard in that time frame and I used that just like any other average, normal person.
If the clouds were 2,000ft high and I immediately see jet contrails below the clouds what is my conclusion?
1. Are they normal jet contrails according to jet contrail physics? NO Why? the altitude is too low.
2. Where the trails massive looking? YES
3. Where they in patterns in question? YES
What could it be? It could be chemtrails (Even though your afraid to admit it.)
Instead of questioning the pilots answer, you should take it to heart, make more observations and give a more scientific response.
By the way, you forgot that the trails I saw are on the web site too. I got photos of them. Photos don't lie. I bring my camera equipment everywhere I go which is more....much more than the average person does.
So I did see those trails. And that pilot told the truth. The evidence is overwhelming.
The fact is simple.
The Pilot said the bottom of the cloud level was 2,000ft that day.
He ought to know....he flew into it....he has gauges.... I don't see why your upset about his answer.
What it gives me is a brief standard in that time frame and I used that just like any other average, normal person.
If the clouds were 2,000ft high and I immediately see jet contrails below the clouds what is my conclusion?
1. Are they normal jet contrails according to jet contrail physics? NO Why? the altitude is too low.
2. Where the trails massive looking? YES
3. Where they in patterns in question? YES
What could it be? It could be chemtrails (Even though your afraid to admit it.)
Instead of questioning the pilots answer, you should take it to heart, make more observations and give a more scientific response.
By the way, you forgot that the trails I saw are on the web site too. I got photos of them. Photos don't lie. I bring my camera equipment everywhere I go which is more....much more than the average person does.
So I did see those trails. And that pilot told the truth. The evidence is overwhelming.
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