Chautauqua

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Yea, these people agreed to slave wages so they could get the Aircraft we said no to by refusing to take concessions.

Talk about low.

 

[SkylerS]

Correction....

30 pieces of silver.

--Sky

Wrongo! I was here. And it was a pleasure doing my part to raise the bar. All I hoped for was an effort on your part (and the others) and there was none to be found.

Oh well, like I said, you guys deserve what little you got. Here's to hoping you enjoy your 30 gold coins (think it was gold coins).

--Sky

 

[I.P. Freley]

Can I be the first to say....

"BLAH BLAH BLAH"??

How on earth, by the way, is the "2yr FO" someone who was there during the "walk the walk" phase?

Did Comair strike in 2002 and I just plain missed it?

 

[SkylerS]

Re: Can I be the first to say....

Uhhh.....

"BLAH BLAH BLAH"??

How on earth, by the way, is the "2yr FO" someone who was there during the "walk the walk" phase?

Did Comair strike in 2002 and I just plain missed it?

I never said I've been here for only 2 years; it's been longer than that.

You didn't miss the strike, you missed the opportunity to raise the bar. And before you start with the economy and 9/11 pathetic excuses, just remember we said NO to "concessions for growth" despite knowing the consequences. You ought to try it sometime, standing up to management. It's a great feeling, allows you to live longer, and even grows hair (though your coat seems rather clean and shiny).

Look, I pointed out a fact on the disparity in pay. At least I looked at your contract before opening my mouth.

--Sky

 

[TWAER]

Re: Re: Can I be the first to say....

Uhhh.....





I never said I've been here for only 2 years; it's been longer than that.

You didn't miss the strike, you missed the opportunity to raise the bar. And before you start with the economy and 9/11 pathetic excuses, just remember we said NO to "concessions for growth" despite knowing the consequences. You ought to try it sometime, standing up to management. It's a great feeling, allows you to live longer, and even grows hair (though your coat seems rather clean and shiny).

Look, I pointed out a fact on the disparity in pay. At least I looked at your contract before opening my mouth.

--Sky

YOU are a fool because you simply don't get it. You have not proven a darn thing since 2001. Next time your contract comes up, prove me wrong and get the biggest pay raise of any regional. You might have read our current contract, but did you read the garbage we had a few years ago? Quote me some pay rates from that one won't ya. How bout some work rules? We'll see how well you step up to the plate when you don't have a perfect economy and an airline that is in great financial shape. Please prove me wrong. But let me tell you, there is no one pulling for COEX and Comair harder than me. I hope you get everything you want and more. Just get OFF this stupid crap about CHQ. We had many people work their asses off to get what we got. If YOU don't like it, don't work here. And don't give that crap about making it harder for you to negotiate. Go on strike and stick it to management. It obviously makes you feel better.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Well you're right about one thing, YOU didn't say you were a 2yr FO, someone else did and I was mistaken.

Then again, you've assumed things about me that are wrong, so I guess we're even.

That doesn't excuse your amazing lack of understanding about how 9/11 and the subsequent downturn in the industry and the economy DID affect CHQ's (and everyone else's) bargaining position. Calling it "pathetic" defies all understanding, actually. Do you just attach that phrase to PROVE you're on Mars? I guess all you see is the CHQ contract, their pay scales, and that's an open and shut case. Never you mind about what was going on at the time, what they had to do to shut out Republic, etc.

The repeated assertions by an unfortunately vocal minority over at Comair sure does make the whole bunch of you look like the kind of people you wouldn't want to be stuck in a room with. I'm sure that there's a fine gang down there in Cincinnati, but the "I'm better than you" bunch seems to find it's way onto this board.

Unfortunate, really. A friend of mine who's a flight attendant asked me the other day "howcome it seems like all regional pilots hate each other?"

Wish I had an answer. A good way to start would be to stop flinging insults like spoiled schoolchildren....

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

republic? REPUBLIC?? Oh goog greif. That was an Ornstein move and you cowards fell for it. You people have no balls. You caved, pure and simple because you did not have the back bone to stand up and fight for whats right.

You say Republic would of stopped your "growth". We were told if we did not take concessions, our growth would stop, and we had the back bone and dignity to tell them to go pack sand.

This speaks volumes to the kind of pilot groups that are out there. Some have pride and dignity and others, Chitaco, Skywhore, Mesa, to name a few, are a bunch of spineless idiots who don't give a crap about the profession but just want new shiny jets to fly at any cost.

The truth hurts, don't it. I don't know how you people can look in the mirror. Pathetic, just pathetic.

OK, I'm done. You can go get back on your knees for mgt. and suck their arses some more and keep telling them thank you for allowing you to be their little suck arse whores.

 

[DrinkSweetTea]

Classy.

 

[JBcrjca]

Afellow-

You must be a truly miserable person to fly with...you spew nothing but negativity, and I feel sorry for any FOs that get paired with you and have to listen to your drivel for days on end. Your two favorite words in your posts are 'pathetic' and 'whores'. Give it a rest...your rhetoric is beyond stale, and you keep flogging a dead horse. Do you expect all of the CHQ/SKW/MSA pilots will suddenly think that you're right? Sorry, not gonna happen. The fact is, you work for a wholly owned carrier...and the ones you love to bash are contract carriers. There's a world of difference, but you're too blind and egotistical to see it.

In the 'Comair in SLC' thread, you wondered why you got the silent treatment in the SLC crew lounge. As another guy posted there, maybe the SKW crews saw your holier-than-thou attitude with your nose in the air from a mile away and made a concerted effort to avoid you. And they certainly aren't going to thank you just because you work for CMR and happened to go on strike for the good of all mankind. That strike, by the way, is most certainly one of the reasons for the whipsawing you see amongst the DCI carriers now. You're starting to make all CMR pilots look bad...but what do you care. Anyway, have a nice life and try to relax a little. Your FOs will appreciate it.

 

[I.P. Freley]

I said:

>>>A good way to start would be to stop flinging insults like spoiled schoolchildren....<<<

And the response we get from "afellowaviator" includes such lovely let's-all-hug-each-other terms as:

"no balls", "caved", "chitaco", "skywhore", "spineless idiots", "don't give a crap about the profession", "pathetic", "suck arse", and more.

You, sir, are a DELIGHT.

Does make me wonder, though, what "fellow" is supposed to mean in his screenname. I would assume that by "fellow" he insinuates that we are all aviators and he's part of the club, suffering and delighting in the aviation career along with us... But clearly the suffering is the part he has the greatest grasp of, and practically anyone not on his seniority list is beneath contempt. Good news is that there's an alternate definition of "fellow" that sums up "afellowaviator" quite nicely:

>>>A man without good breeding or worth; an ignoble or mean man.<<<

Bingo!

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Afellow-

You must be a truly miserable person to fly with...you spew nothing but negativity, and I feel sorry for any FOs that get paired with you and have to listen to your drivel for days on end. Your two favorite words in your posts are 'pathetic' and 'whores'. Give it a rest...your rhetoric is beyond stale, and you keep flogging a dead horse. Do you expect all of the CHQ/SKW/MSA pilots will suddenly think that you're right? Sorry, not gonna happen. The fact is, you work for a wholly owned carrier...and the ones you love to bash are contract carriers. There's a world of difference, but you're too blind and egotistical to see it.

In the 'Comair in SLC' thread, you wondered why you got the silent treatment in the SLC crew lounge. As another guy posted there, maybe the SKW crews saw your holier-than-thou attitude with your nose in the air from a mile away and made a concerted effort to avoid you. And they certainly aren't going to thank you just because you work for CMR and happened to go on strike for the good of all mankind. That strike, by the way, is most certainly one of the reasons for the whipsawing you see amongst the DCI carriers now. You're starting to make all CMR pilots look bad...but what do you care. Anyway, have a nice life and try to relax a little. Your FOs will appreciate it.




Actually, if you read the whole thread you would see I was not really hurt. Now the contract carrier argument is a new one. I have not heard that one before. Another excuse. It is funny how people try to justify their misgivings.

Actually, all the pilots and flight attendants I fly with and all my students rather enjoy my company. You just assume I am the only one with this opinion when in fact it is the opinion of most I run into at work.

There are no words harsh enough to desribe what these "contract carriers" have done to hurt "our" careers. It started with Mesa, and continued with cha and skw.

You do not like my post because the truth hurts. You can use any excuse you want but the real reason all these pilot groups bent over was single minded greed with no reguard to what their actions would do to the industry. They wanted growth at any cost. They showed no back bone and obviously have little pride in what they do.

 

[Bluestreak]

Yeah,you Comair boys sure set the bar high-hardly anybody could afford to buy a job there a few years ago.Did you start out as a wholly-owned ? Nope,you too,were once a lowly "contract-carrier".

 

[Strikefinder]

As it's been said on numerous occasions, I believe that the vast majority of the people at CHQ made the decision to accept our current contract under the auspices of being whipsawed by our own parent company's creation, Republic. It wasn't the fear that we'd "lose growth" as much as the fear that the creation of an alter-ego carrier with lower pay rates (not to start a flame war here, but PSA rates for those that are wondering) would provide our parent company the opportunity to take the flying that we already had away from us and give it to a lower cost carrier. Though none of us will ever know for certain, I think it's reasonable to believe that had we turned down the contract, the mediation board would not have allowed us to start the cooling off period for some time (as it was nearing the holiday season, and historically the mediation board does no release pilot groups to strike during this time), and given the opportunity to get Republic (in it's prior form) off the ground could have led to our battling and existing entity making lower wage rates than we do (and you do). Had our flying effectively been transferred to Republic at their wage rates, you'd have been pretty greatful to be battling our wage rates.

Don't think it could happen? Read up on your history of Frank and the Continental folks and how well striking worked for them. Just because you go on strike does not guarantee higher wage rates, or even a job at all. ComAir was positioned incredibly well when their strike went on, something we didn't share because of other airline contracts being signed at wage rates significantly lower than what we agreed to. Besides Mesa, TSA signed a contract extension of lower wage rates and horrible work rules, PSA agreed to horrible CRJ rates, Air Wisconsin and ACA agreed to concessionary rates (the latter of which was admittedly reversed by their cancellation of their United contract, but at the time we still had to bargain against it), Piedmont/Allegheny agreed to poor CRJ rates (which never materialized for them, though), and we still find ourselves ahead of Pinnacle, Mesaba, and CoEx's current contract. Meanwhile, our work rules significantly improved and I still believe are among the best in the industry. We were the first airline to sign a non-concessionary contract post 9/11, and so far for all the talk about sticking it to the man, I've yet to see anybody pony up and do better. I hope CoEx and ASA do, and if I actually see ComAir +X%, I will hands down congratulate you. We'll see. I love to be proven wrong.

As far as the hatred goes, I can't help how you feel. I'm very happy here, and though I might disagree with the way other pilot groups decide to deal with their own contract negotiations, I don't take it personally. And even if you want to give me the nth degree every time I see you at the airport, you're always welcome in my jumpseat unless you've crossed a picket line, and even then, it's business, not personal. It's funny, though, how all the claims that have been made to me since our contract was signed about how sorry I'll be haven't seemed to materialize for me. Only time will tell, but something tells me that won't change any time soon.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

Don't you people get sick of arguing the same crap everyday? Ah, the freedoms of the internet message board. You never have to take responsibility for what you post.

 

[FlyingDawg]

I find it funny that the only people complaining about the CHQ contract are pilots from other companies.