Chautauqua

[BoilerUP]

You paid $70K (which seems awfully high, does that include a college degree?) for your ratings so you could be employed. The distinction comes when you drop an extra 8-12K TO GET A JOB. Many "regionals" airlines in the mid-90s were PFT, including Comair, Expressjet, ASA, and Chautauqua. "Hired" employees had to pay for their training up front before they could start flying for pay.

Many wholly-owned regional airline pilots (ExpressJet, Comair, ASA, American Eagle, etc) on this board bash Mesa and CHQ and occasionally TSA because their contracts aren't a few precentage points above Comair's. They bash Skywest because they are non-union and *currently* fly 70 seat jets for 50 seat rates, although this will change. They claim these companies have "sold out for growth", i.e. accepted lower pay (especially on FO scales) because they are growing rapidly and people are upgrading quickly, often at the expense of the wholly-owned carriers.

The contract carriers (CHQ, SKW, Mesa, etc) often complain that many of the wholly-owned (WO) pilots "bought their job" through PFT (although it was common in the mid-90s) and that they whine about other people's contracts when they are unwilling to take the burden themselves to "raise the bar".

Who is right and who is wrong in this argument? Nobody and everybody. And the whipsaw goes on and on and on...did I miss anything?

I HIGHLY suggest you read both Hard Landing and Flying the Line Vol. 2 before you start your airline career. Best of luck to ya, and welcome to the board.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

First, how is this different from the $70,000 I just spent to get my ratings so I could be hired by a regional? <snip>

Second, if most companies got rid of it (at least I know that Comair did a few years back), why is this still an issue?

There is no comparison between PFT and what you did. You invested $70K so that you could attain the required FAA ratings/certs that will be yours for the rest of your life barring amedment, suspension, modification, or revocation by the FAA as promulgated by the Civil Aviation Act of 1958. Those are your tickets my friend. Congrats. You have a right to be proud.

The FAA requires all airlines to provide indoctrination and and aircraft specific training. Traditionally that expense is borne by the airlines. You show up with the right FAA certs and experience and the company trains you to their standard. That's simply part of the cost of doing business and it's required by the Feds anyway. When airlines utilize PFT they no longer get to choose the best qualified candidate for the job. It's more or less whoever meets the insurance requirements and has the money to blow. In essence the PFT pilot is substituting a checkbook for other qualifying factors. What kind of message did PFT pilots send to airline management when they wrote the check? Here's an example of what happens when pilots are willing to whore themselves out. When I was at that 135 outfit a fellow pilot went to management with a legitimate gripe. You know what the boss told him? I'll never forget this either. The boss said "look son, I've got pilots willing to take your job and fly for free. If you don't like it here feel free to quit." What effect do you think PFT had on pay and quality of life in this industry? I know guys at my airline who negotiated pay and work rules on behalf of the pilot group. How many times do you think they were told, "look, at the other airlines the new hires are paying for their own training. How do you expect us to pay a Metro FO $17/ hour?"

You also asked why is PFT an issue. It really isn't until some a$$wipe that PFT'd starts calling other pilots SkyWhore and crap like that. Normally I'd never bring it up. However I don't take kindly to somebody from a former PFT airline telling other pilots how they're lowering the bar. PFT help put the bar on the ground in the first place. I was there and I saw it drop.

BoilerUp has some good reading recommendations. I'd check them out.

 

[moscowcfi]

Thanks for the information and advice, guys. I think the $70,000 probably included my living expenses, but yes, I did spend a lot. It led to a job offer from a very good airline, though, so I'm not too upset.

I hope someone will slap me really hard if I ever become one of these whiny people that can't get a long with fellow pilots, regardless of their airline. Except for SkyWest, of course. I HATE THEM! Just kidding. I think I haven't been corrupted yet into hating any pilot groups or airlines and I hope I never will be. Perhaps I'm just naive, but it seems to me we are all professionals that worked really hard to get where we are. Well, in my case it was a few well-placed bribes, but that's another story. I'm sure someone else has already tried the "can't we all just get along" line, so I won't bore you all with it.

I'll look up that reading, and thank's again for the info.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I find it funny that the only people complaining about the CHQ contract are pilots from other companies.

I'm CHQ and I'll gladly complain about the contract. I freely admit that it was a dramatic improvement, but we could have done better if we had stuck to our guns. I think we caved under the pressure of management lies.

 

[Buford T Justic]

I was not trying to start a war here. I have a job i am just trying to get some info. for a friend trying to get on there. Would some one please just post the FO pay rates !!!!

 

[moscowcfi]

Buford, I love your signature line.

 

[Axel]

I believe that CHQ was PFT at one time.

 

[SkylerS]

Buford.

I was not trying to start a war here. I have a job i am just trying to get some info. for a friend trying to get on there. <i>Would some one please just post the FO pay rates !!!!</i>

What are you getting all upset about? Someone posted the link for the entire contract.

It's www.ibt747.org/airlines/chq/chq-contract.htm

--Sky

 

[Buford T Justic]

Buford.




What are you getting all upset about? Someone posted the link for the entire contract.

It's www.ibt747.org/airlines/chq/chq-contract.htm

--Sky [
/QUOTE]
Sorry i did not see it. Thanks for the link tho

 

[SkylerS]

My pleasure. Well, thanks to the first guy that posted the link.

There are a lot of nice items in their contract, but the pay sucks (at least for the FO)!

--Sky