Cargo 360 just bought Southern Air

[dakotaHC8]

Your right Kalitta is close to what SAI has. Neff seems to think bring on 10 airplanes in 8 years is great accomplishment, Kalitta will have done twice that number in the same time. By the way how many of SAI's aircraft fly? 7 of the 10? You guys at SAI have Stockholm syndrome, you really can do better, Neff's days are numbered think bigger, better and more. I am not arguing I am trying to find a reason to go to southern and not hang around to the end of Cargo 360 take my serverance package and be happy.

PS nobody has answered my question on the grievance process at SAI and how you will handle a owner that may drag its feet. Previous company was $10000 in cost to the union when the company took a grievance all the way to arbitration, can SAI in house union afford ten or more of those a year? I had five myself in six years thats $50000 in cost to the union for the company drag its feet.

Nobody answered your question because you are obviously trolling on here.

I'm sorry that you seem so upset with the changes that are about to occur, but that's the way the industry goes, you might as well get used to it. Bitching at us is not the way.

Anyways, many of the questions you keep asking are better discussed somewhere else other than an open internet forum.

Duh.

I'm glad Kalitta got a new contract, and I am glad it is better than ours, but think for a second as to why that is the case Genius... Because as soon as Southern (their obvious competition) established our numbers, that is where Kalitta's negotiations went from. Where do you think we got our numbers from when we were negotiating ours last year...?
(hint: the old Kalitta contract)

Also glad to hear you have so much faith in the grievance process of a national union. I don't. I've seen many a half-hearted effort by both ALPA and Teamsters uninterested in spending their own funds on what "you" might consider important, but they don't.

We have what we have at Southern right now, because it is what WE want. Get used to the idea. IF you come online and want to change things, then build support, and get the majority to vote your way. But until that time either accept things, or go elsewhere.

We do not have "stockholm syndrome" pal, it's just that a lot of SAI pilots have been doing this for a lot longer than you, and have seen a lot more than you have seen. They are not naive when it comes to flying in this industry, and as such are more cautious than you seem to be about labor-company relations.

Coming on here and spouting off like some school teacher, telling us what we need to do and not do sounds pretty full of it... To pilots who were flying around the world in 747's, or getting shot at while hauling "supplies" around Africa in Herc's before you even soloed.

My advice to you is to either chill, or spend your time online filling out applications for somewhere else.

BTW, I hear Kalitta is hiring...

 

[unwashed]

Not upset, but try to find answers, that nobody knows or wants to answer. You don't know how long I have been in the industry or what I have done or gone through. Maybe I was a teacher before this maybe I was a dockworker or a MBA at big 6 accounting firm. That is really not the point. I am sorry you have been stung and shot at, but as I stated a lot of our guys have been also, some having lost millions, others stapled to the bottom of seniority lists, some have been furlowed for 11 of 14 years. What I want is plain answers from the pilot group. We at Cargo 360 may have a lot to gain by going over to Southern, but we want line guys input not candy coated sales craft. We may have things that we can bring to help you QOL and enhance your contract. I believe things will get better there now that Neff does not handle everything. Cargo 360's current route structure is very efficient and will probably help your QOL. Bring over five airplanes will help your movement for the younger guys.

 

[dakotaHC8]

Ok then.

Just understand your "questions" sounded more like complaints, or accusations of outright ignorance on our pilot group's part. You are more likely to get told to F off, than to get answers if you approach things with that attitude.

You want to discuss things, then pull up a stool at F Street, or grab a booth at Humpys and we'll openly talk.

Sorry you are not getting a ton of information regarding Southern, but IMO it is part of the culture left over from the "old Transport days", in that the company does not like to talk about itself too much, and tends to keep a low profile.

Meaning we do not know much more of how this affair is going to turn out right now either. But experience has shown that if you want answers, follow the money trail.

In this case, the money is pointing towards growth, and newer equipment. In an industry (ACMI) that survives on the whims of the customer, this merger must already have the support of our largest customer, Korean... And that means the opportunities to grow into something bigger and better, that can support better QOL for the pilot group now exists. Past these simple assumptions, who can tell what exactly is about to occur.

But show me a single airline out there that you know exactly what will be going on in a year's time, five year's time, or longer...

The other details that you seek are better discussed in person, or remain to be seen as the merger process works itself out. But in the meantime, we better do what we can to get along with one another, because soon enough we will be in the same uniforms + same cockpits.

 

[pilotbrain]

One of my Good friends over at SAI sent me this

As you have probably heard by now, Tom and I will be traveling to ANC on Monday for meetings with the SACG reps on Tuesday morning and the Cargo 360 folks in the afternoon. We will be holding open meetings Wednesday and Thursday for anyone who is in ANC in the Board Room (rm 308 - from 10-1pm).

 

[unwashed]

Ok then.

Just understand your "questions" sounded more like complaints, or accusations of outright ignorance on our pilot group's part. You are more likely to get told to F off, than to get answers if you approach things with that attitude.

You want to discuss things, then pull up a stool at F Street, or grab a booth at Humpys and we'll openly talk.

Sorry you are not getting a ton of information regarding Southern, but IMO it is part of the culture left over from the "old Transport days", in that the company does not like to talk about itself too much, and tends to keep a low profile.

Meaning we do not know much more of how this affair is going to turn out right now either. But experience has shown that if you want answers, follow the money trail.

In this case, the money is pointing towards growth, and newer equipment. In an industry (ACMI) that survives on the whims of the customer, this merger must already have the support of our largest customer, Korean... And that means the opportunities to grow into something bigger and better, that can support better QOL for the pilot group now exists. Past these simple assumptions, who can tell what exactly is about to occur.

But show me a single airline out there that you know exactly what will be going on in a year's time, five year's time, or longer...

The other details that you seek are better discussed in person, or remain to be seen as the merger process works itself out. But in the meantime, we better do what we can to get along with one another, because soon enough we will be in the same uniforms + same cockpits.

If I get my travel docs for tomorrow I will drop in next week

 

[slinky]

Ok Slinky, point me to where it spells out in plain language why Neff has to give me mil leave for UTAs and AFTPs

How's life in ATL? Wondering if I should join you

here you go

http://www.dol.gov/vets/programs/userra/Right_Act4_2005.pdf

 

[Rookiy]

KAL wasn't involved in the discussions and have only recently been informed. It is my understanding that they have not yet responded either for or against. Also, that KAL's contract was with Cargo 360, No Cargo 360, No contract. Many herdles to over come yet.

 

[Rookiy]

Thanks Slinky, just like I asked.

 

[C-141/C-5]

kal is not happy and the owners of the 400s are not happy. This is not a done deal yet.

 

[dakotaHC8]

KAL wasn't involved in the discussions and have only recently been informed. It is my understanding that they have not yet responded either for or against. Also, that KAL's contract was with Cargo 360, No Cargo 360, No contract. Many herdles to over come yet.

You happen to have a link to your source info...?

Thought so.

FYI, Korean recently signed a long term contract extension with Southern, and has been asking for additional aircraft from SAI for sometime now. But you and your source probably did not know that.

Do you really think Oak Hill was stupid enough to move forward on a multi-million dollar investment without consulting their primary customer...?

C'mon man.

 

[dakotaHC8]

kal is not happy and the owners of the 400s are not happy. This is not a done deal yet.

Again, do you have a link to the source for that info...?

Seriously, WTF would they care...? If you don't have a real source to back your rumor up, at least explain your logic...

Plus I thought you guys claimed to "own" those birds already, no...?

Please resist the temptation to grab ahold of any rumor that floats by, just to kid yourself into thinking things are not going to change.

Not trying to be a Dick about this, it's just that I have been through this sort of situation before... And your best bet is to steer the raft around the rocks instead of trying to force it back up the river...

 

[C-141/C-5]

FYI, Korean recently signed a long term contract extension with Southern, and has been asking for additional aircraft from SAI for sometime now. But you and your source probably did not know that


EXACTLY! Thank you for making our point. They want more aircraft but you guys have three sitting this month. Sounds like a management problem. Chill dude this merger could work out for the best for all parties we have to stick together.

 

[dakotaHC8]

FYI, Korean recently signed a long term contract extension with Southern, and has been asking for additional aircraft from SAI for sometime now. But you and your source probably did not know that


EXACTLY! Thank you for making our point. They want more aircraft but you guys have three sitting this month. Sounds like a management problem. Chill dude this merger could work out for the best for all parties we have to stick together.

???

What...?

My point is that Korean is happy enough with our services, that they would like us to operate a larger fleet for them.

IMO that is the whole point behind this merger.

You are the one tossing out unsubstantiated rumors, without knowing the facts pal. You should take your own advice and "chill".

We keep one plane in RKSI as a spare (per customer request), one is in heavy check, and one is used for DOD + Ad Hoc missions.

Other than that, we do have one or more aircraft go down for MNX issues for short periods (like planes that fly on an almost non-stop op tempo tend to do on occasion), or if the customer has canceled a rotation...

So...?



Look, just because you are unhappy about the changes does not mean you need to keep blaming Southern (or trying to find fault with our operation).

Your owners bought us, your owners placed our management in charge, and your owners wanted to merge your company into Southern + have it continue, not Cargo 360...

And now Oak Hill owns both of our companies. It is a done deal. You might as well get used to it and stop pining for what "coulda/woulda/shoulda" been.

A DOH merger (instead of a staple), a growing company with rapid upgrades, new routes, possible new equipment, and joining a pilot group that you will find is professional and decent... Take my word for it, you really do not know how good you have it (unless you've gone through a few bankruptcies/bad mergers/closures in the past).

Things will turn out just fine for both of our groups, but in the meantime, please don't just toss out something "some guy said" (just because you don't want the status quo to change)... That will only cause resentment and confusion. Neither of us needs that.

Blue Skies my Friend, cya on the line...

 

[Rookiy]

You happen to have a link to your source info...?

Thought so.

FYI, Korean recently signed a long term contract extension with Southern, and has been asking for additional aircraft from SAI for sometime now. But you and your source probably did not know that.

Do you really think Oak Hill was stupid enough to move forward on a multi-million dollar investment without consulting their primary customer...?

C'mon man.

I PMd Dakota, hope he's satisfied.

A few questions remain.

1. Why do you put up with 20 day rotations for around 65 hrs of operating? Am I missing something? Your August bid packet took awhile to decipher, but I'm sure I'll get better with practice. It doesn't seem very efficient.

2. The Mil leave verbage is illegal. Slinky was kind enough to point us to the text. Is this how it realy works or are your Mil guys able to get off the time you need without question?

3. SAI's maitenance reputation is poor. Do you agree or disagree? Why? How many MCOs do carry on the books generally?

These two things are No-Go items for me. The second one I can fix, but I'ld rather hear from SAI pilots before goig down the FederaLegal road. But #1, what's up?

 

[27 driver]

I PMd Dakota, hope he's satisfied.

A few questions remain.

1. Why do you put up with 20 day rotations for around 65 hrs of operating? Am I missing something? Your August bid packet took awhile to decipher, but I'm sure I'll get better with practice. It doesn't seem very efficient.

2. The Mil leave verbage is illegal. Slinky was kind enough to point us to the text. Is this how it realy works or are your Mil guys able to get off the time you need without question?

3. SAI's maitenance reputation is poor. Do you agree or disagree? Why? How many MCOs do carry on the books generally?

These two things are No-Go items for me. The second one I can fix, but I'ld rather hear from SAI pilots before goig down the FederaLegal road. But #1, what's up?

We are hoping that with the 3 new hire classes coming on the line soon we will start to get a break with the 20 day rotations. When I hired on I was told that they were working on about 15 days out with 5 days of home reserve. Lets hope with proper staffing that will be a reality You are correct about the poor utilization of crews though. I recently spent exactly 20 days out and only blocked 43 hours. That sucks and needs to change. Just as Cargo 360 was working on getting better, so is SAI. It will take time to make these changes. Lets hope for the best.