Cargo 360 just bought Southern Air

[lear24]

PS nobody has answered my question on the grievance process at SAI and how you will handle a owner that may drag its feet. Previous company was $10000 in cost to the union when the company took a grievance all the way to arbitration, can SAI in house union afford ten or more of those a year? I had five myself in six years thats $50000 in cost to the union for the company drag its feet.

I agree the KA TA does not "bring it in line" with SA, it finally brings the hourly rates in line, but hourly rates aren't the whole story. Sounds like if a SA pilot gets stuck out past his 20, he can't get those days off replaced, but maybe I'm wrong.

I too have a question about the grievance process at SA, namely, is there one? Is there definite grievance hearing and arbitration language in that contract? I was under the impression there was not. Without it, there is absolutely no accountability to force the company to abide by the contract. On that vein, is there any scope or merger language?

 

[pilotbrain]

My questions are if OAK Hill purchased SAI then why is the SAI management staying in charge, and why are head quarters moving to Norwalk.

 

[pilotbrain]

Might sound a bit ignorant here, but what exactly did Neff do with SAT?

He got pissed off at GE capital filed bankruptcy, closed the doors of SAT. 6 months later SAI was born new pilot group (except a few guys that waited around.) I have heard it out of his own mouth that if SAI pilot unionized that he would just close the doors.

 

[unwashed]

My questions are if OAK Hill purchased SAI then why is the SAI management staying in charge, and why are head quarters moving to Norwalk.

we don't know.

 

[StripAlert]

My questions are if OAK Hill purchased SAI then why is the SAI management staying in charge, and why are head quarters moving to Norwalk.

Oak Hill isn't Cargo 360. They own it. They're buying SAI and merging the two and SAI is surviving. So the HQ isn't moving, it's staying in place at Southern's present HQ.

There are some theories floating around as to why Oak Hill chose SAI as the surviving entity over Cargo 360, but an obvious one would be that they're 3 times our size.

 

[StripAlert]

He got pissed off at GE capital filed bankruptcy, closed the doors of SAT. 6 months later SAI was born new pilot group (except a few guys that waited around.) I have heard it out of his own mouth that if SAI pilot unionized that he would just close the doors.

Of course, it's moot now, because Oak Hill won't allow it. (And 90% of the C360 guys would call the bluff if he did try it.)

 

[halfbank]

You can keep all your days off if you want. You just have to tell them those are your days off and you will not be at work... Done it before and it works. If they say too bad, I say too bad for Southern too, my resignation is in your inbox... Why put up with this crap when everyone is hiring! Southern will soon realize this too...

 

[pilotbrain]

Oak Hill isn't Cargo 360. They own it. They're buying SAI and merging the two and SAI is surviving. So the HQ isn't moving, it's staying in place at Southern's present HQ.

There are some theories floating around as to why Oak Hill chose SAI as the surviving entity over Cargo 360, but an obvious one would be that they're 3 times our size.

I need clarification on this statement, are you saying that oak hill is bailing out SAI. My understanding is that cargo 360 is the airline in trouble and is the one that need to be bailed out.

FYI I worked for SAT and now I work for 360 so i know how Neff Works.

 

[pilotbrain]

I need clarification on this statement, are you saying that oak hill is bailing out SAI. My understanding is that cargo 360 is the airline in trouble and is the one that need to be bailed out.

FYI I worked for SAT and now I work for 360 so i know how Neff Works.

And I hope im wrong!

 

[unwashed]

If Cargo 360 was in trouble then Oakhill is in trouble now all of us at SAT and Cargo 360 are in trouble. Cargo 360 had paid off all their startup cost very quickly after we began operations. We almost did not get through our proving runs, but made it and have been making money ever since. I think we operate our three aircraft over 1400 hours per month on a five year deal with KAL. It would be really hard not to make money with that kind of tempo. I have never heard the we where in any kind of trouble and you know how airlines are with rumors.

 

[tomgoodman]

Moved up to Oak Hill?

Where's Dave Greenberg in all of this? I flew with him at Delta when he was a management pilot.

 

[pilotbrain]

Dose this mean that The new SAI will Go public? Anyone know?

 

[Flyingtom145]

SAI will not go public because Oak Hill is a Private Equity company. After the market went south in 2000, alot of wealthy individuals took their monies out of public funds and invested into private funds. A couple of the investors are Bill Gates and Phil Knight(Nike CEO). Hope this helps.

 

[pilotbrain]

SAI will not go public because Oak Hill is a Private Equity company. After the market went south in 2000, alot of wealthy individuals took their monies out of public funds and invested into private funds. A couple of the investors are Bill Gates and Phil Knight(Nike CEO). Hope this helps.

Thanks

 

[unwashed]

H David Greenberg is the COB of Cargo 360 and may be soon to be the COB SAI Holdings. The company will probably be IPOed in the next four to five years. The investors will get a great return and be out of the airlines business except as possible stock holders. Greenberg's ties in Asia are very good as he was the CFO (I believe) of KAL. He went over to KAL after they flew a few A/C in to hills. His contacts over there are still strong and personnel. Hope this helps.

P.S. going public has always been the plan for Oakhill.

 

[dakotaHC8]

Your right Kalitta is close to what SAI has. Neff seems to think bring on 10 airplanes in 8 years is great accomplishment, Kalitta will have done twice that number in the same time. By the way how many of SAI's aircraft fly? 7 of the 10? You guys at SAI have Stockholm syndrome, you really can do better, Neff's days are numbered think bigger, better and more. I am not arguing I am trying to find a reason to go to southern and not hang around to the end of Cargo 360 take my serverance package and be happy.

PS nobody has answered my question on the grievance process at SAI and how you will handle a owner that may drag its feet. Previous company was $10000 in cost to the union when the company took a grievance all the way to arbitration, can SAI in house union afford ten or more of those a year? I had five myself in six years thats $50000 in cost to the union for the company drag its feet.

Nobody answered your question because you are obviously trolling on here.

I'm sorry that you seem so upset with the changes that are about to occur, but that's the way the industry goes, you might as well get used to it. Bitching at us is not the way.

Anyways, many of the questions you keep asking are better discussed somewhere else other than an open internet forum.

Duh.

I'm glad Kalitta got a new contract, and I am glad it is better than ours, but think for a second as to why that is the case Genius... Because as soon as Southern (their obvious competition) established our numbers, that is where Kalitta's negotiations went from. Where do you think we got our numbers from when we were negotiating ours last year...?
(hint: the old Kalitta contract)

Also glad to hear you have so much faith in the grievance process of a national union. I don't. I've seen many a half-hearted effort by both ALPA and Teamsters uninterested in spending their own funds on what "you" might consider important, but they don't.

We have what we have at Southern right now, because it is what WE want. Get used to the idea. IF you come online and want to change things, then build support, and get the majority to vote your way. But until that time either accept things, or go elsewhere.

We do not have "stockholm syndrome" pal, it's just that a lot of SAI pilots have been doing this for a lot longer than you, and have seen a lot more than you have seen. They are not naive when it comes to flying in this industry, and as such are more cautious than you seem to be about labor-company relations.

Coming on here and spouting off like some school teacher, telling us what we need to do and not do sounds pretty full of it... To pilots who were flying around the world in 747's, or getting shot at while hauling "supplies" around Africa in Herc's before you even soloed.

My advice to you is to either chill, or spend your time online filling out applications for somewhere else.

BTW, I hear Kalitta is hiring...

 

[unwashed]

Not upset, but try to find answers, that nobody knows or wants to answer. You don't know how long I have been in the industry or what I have done or gone through. Maybe I was a teacher before this maybe I was a dockworker or a MBA at big 6 accounting firm. That is really not the point. I am sorry you have been stung and shot at, but as I stated a lot of our guys have been also, some having lost millions, others stapled to the bottom of seniority lists, some have been furlowed for 11 of 14 years. What I want is plain answers from the pilot group. We at Cargo 360 may have a lot to gain by going over to Southern, but we want line guys input not candy coated sales craft. We may have things that we can bring to help you QOL and enhance your contract. I believe things will get better there now that Neff does not handle everything. Cargo 360's current route structure is very efficient and will probably help your QOL. Bring over five airplanes will help your movement for the younger guys.

 

[dakotaHC8]

Ok then.

Just understand your "questions" sounded more like complaints, or accusations of outright ignorance on our pilot group's part. You are more likely to get told to F off, than to get answers if you approach things with that attitude.

You want to discuss things, then pull up a stool at F Street, or grab a booth at Humpys and we'll openly talk.

Sorry you are not getting a ton of information regarding Southern, but IMO it is part of the culture left over from the "old Transport days", in that the company does not like to talk about itself too much, and tends to keep a low profile.

Meaning we do not know much more of how this affair is going to turn out right now either. But experience has shown that if you want answers, follow the money trail.

In this case, the money is pointing towards growth, and newer equipment. In an industry (ACMI) that survives on the whims of the customer, this merger must already have the support of our largest customer, Korean... And that means the opportunities to grow into something bigger and better, that can support better QOL for the pilot group now exists. Past these simple assumptions, who can tell what exactly is about to occur.

But show me a single airline out there that you know exactly what will be going on in a year's time, five year's time, or longer...

The other details that you seek are better discussed in person, or remain to be seen as the merger process works itself out. But in the meantime, we better do what we can to get along with one another, because soon enough we will be in the same uniforms + same cockpits.

 

[pilotbrain]

One of my Good friends over at SAI sent me this

As you have probably heard by now, Tom and I will be traveling to ANC on Monday for meetings with the SACG reps on Tuesday morning and the Cargo 360 folks in the afternoon. We will be holding open meetings Wednesday and Thursday for anyone who is in ANC in the Board Room (rm 308 - from 10-1pm).

 

[unwashed]

Ok then.

Just understand your "questions" sounded more like complaints, or accusations of outright ignorance on our pilot group's part. You are more likely to get told to F off, than to get answers if you approach things with that attitude.

You want to discuss things, then pull up a stool at F Street, or grab a booth at Humpys and we'll openly talk.

Sorry you are not getting a ton of information regarding Southern, but IMO it is part of the culture left over from the "old Transport days", in that the company does not like to talk about itself too much, and tends to keep a low profile.

Meaning we do not know much more of how this affair is going to turn out right now either. But experience has shown that if you want answers, follow the money trail.

In this case, the money is pointing towards growth, and newer equipment. In an industry (ACMI) that survives on the whims of the customer, this merger must already have the support of our largest customer, Korean... And that means the opportunities to grow into something bigger and better, that can support better QOL for the pilot group now exists. Past these simple assumptions, who can tell what exactly is about to occur.

But show me a single airline out there that you know exactly what will be going on in a year's time, five year's time, or longer...

The other details that you seek are better discussed in person, or remain to be seen as the merger process works itself out. But in the meantime, we better do what we can to get along with one another, because soon enough we will be in the same uniforms + same cockpits.

If I get my travel docs for tomorrow I will drop in next week