Cargo 360 just bought Southern Air

[27 driver]

The letter I just received form SAI management is that SAI will still have control and the Neff's will still be in command. Here is a clip from the email.

Under the terms of our agreement, which we signed last week, Cargo 360 will ultimately be merged into Southern Air. The combined company will operate under the Southern Air Holdings Inc. name and will be headquartered at our existing Connecticut facilities. I will remain as CEO of the combined company, with Brian Neff, currently our CFO, promoted to President. We will also remain as significant equity owners. There will be no change as far as any of SAI’s headquarters or field personnel are concerned. With respect to our crewmembers, we are working on a merger of seniority lists based on hire date. It is my understanding that this method results in a straightforward combined list, especially since Cargo 360 currently operates at approximately the same routes and utilization as we do. As a result, no SAI crewmember status will be affected. Bottom line, the only consequence to Southern Air and all its employees is that we will be able to benefit from Oak Hill’s resources, access to capital, and commitment to aviation, resulting in a larger and stronger company. As long as we continue to work together as a team and keep our focus on operational excellence and fiscal discipline, we will always be successful.

Not sure what the terms of the merger are or how they plan on merging the groups. If I had to guess many from Cargo 360 will not like the work rules at SAI. SAI just went union (in house) and are in the process of getting that started. Lets hope it goes smoothly. I am sure there will be many that are unhappy, and I am probably one of them. I guess time will tell. Hopefully there will be no fighting among the groups.

 

[pilotbrain]

My Bet is that 35% of 360 pilot never make the jump to the SA list.. I don't know how most of the 360 guy are going to handle 40 days on the road.

 

[pilotbrain]

God Speed!!!

 

[27 driver]

My Bet is that 35% of 360 pilot never make the jump to the SA list.. I don't know how most of the 360 guy are going to handle 40 days on the road.

I would have to agree with you, Cargo 360 has a much better schedule. It is not as bad as you have heard though. I have been at SAI for about a year now and have never been out more than 23 days and that only happened once. I guess I have been lucky. The million dollar question for me is what are the hire dates of the FO's at Cargo 360. Am I lucky or am I hosed. Only time will tell.

Oh ya, I think Cargo 360 has better first year pay also.

 

[StripAlert]

Take Me To Your Leader

Hey Southern Air guys, we need to get a dialog going between the pilot groups. There is an organizational movement rapidly afoot at Cargo 360 as we speak, and it would do us all good to come together under the same roof sooner rather than later. It's a good sign that the pilot lists are being integrated in what appears to be a fair and equitable manner, as it's not going to pit one side against the other. The letter we got today says substantively the same thing as yours--if we go to Southern Air, we'll go at our current seat or better and our current pay or better, and our seniority list will be merged with yours by date of hire.

Someone from Southern, please PM me. We have a website set up already to encourage communication amongst our pilot group, and it's not going to be too hard to set up some special message boards and integrate you guys into that so we can get to know each other and come up with a plan.

I'll concur that the Cargo 360 guys are none too happy about the potential of being gone over 20 days a month. In fact, we had recently made some significant inroads towards getting that reduced to 16 days. If we can all come together and speak with a single voice, this might be a great opportunity to improve QOL at Southern for everyone's benefit.

 

[johnsonrod]

Hey Southern Air guys, we need to get a dialog going between the pilot groups. There is an organizational movement rapidly afoot at Cargo 360 as we speak, and it would do us all good to come together under the same roof sooner rather than later. It's a good sign that the pilot lists are being integrated in what appears to be a fair and equitable manner, as it's not going to pit one side against the other. The letter we got today says substantively the same thing as yours--if we go to Southern Air, we'll go at our current seat or better and our current pay or better, and our seniority list will be merged with yours by date of hire.

Someone from Southern, please PM me. We have a website set up already to encourage communication amongst our pilot group, and it's not going to be too hard to set up some special message boards and integrate you guys into that so we can get to know each other and come up with a plan.

I'll concur that the Cargo 360 guys are none too happy about the potential of being gone over 20 days a month. In fact, we had recently made some significant inroads towards getting that reduced to 16 days. If we can all come together and speak with a single voice, this might be a great opportunity to improve QOL at Southern for everyone's benefit.

Good luck guys. Sounds like you are getting organized quickly - that is pretty impressive.

 

[unwashed]

Yes we are, SAI pilot group should consider the same. This merging of two different operating certificates is not easy. Cargo360 was certified under ATOS (SIC) which is tougher all around compared to when SAI was certified. And it is interested how Neff said "majority equity holder" when Oakhill said Neff would be a minority holder. Who is correct? Feel free to PM me on the details of our orginizing.

 

[StripAlert]

And it is interested how Neff said "majority equity holder" when Oakhill said Neff would be a minority holder. Who is correct?

Actually, unless I'm missing something, it looks like Neff said "significant equity owners" which appears carefully-crafted, but doesn't necessarily (and probably doesn't) mean majority.

 

[ironspud]

Hey Southern Air guys, we need to get a dialog going between the pilot groups. There is an organizational movement rapidly afoot at Cargo 360 as we speak, and it would do us all good to come together under the same roof sooner rather than later. It's a good sign that the pilot lists are being integrated in what appears to be a fair and equitable manner, as it's not going to pit one side against the other. The letter we got today says substantively the same thing as yours--if we go to Southern Air, we'll go at our current seat or better and our current pay or better, and our seniority list will be merged with yours by date of hire.

Someone from Southern, please PM me. We have a website set up already to encourage communication amongst our pilot group, and it's not going to be too hard to set up some special message boards and integrate you guys into that so we can get to know each other and come up with a plan.

I'll concur that the Cargo 360 guys are none too happy about the potential of being gone over 20 days a month. In fact, we had recently made some significant inroads towards getting that reduced to 16 days. If we can all come together and speak with a single voice, this might be a great opportunity to improve QOL at Southern for everyone's benefit.

Talk to our lawyer.

 

[C-141/C-5]

Neff holds 15% Oak 85%. Pilot groups need to come together and bring SA's scale to Cargo360's first year pay scale and hopefully adopt their management's culture of making a pilot an asset rather than a liability. Cargo360's quality of life is excellent due to excellent scheduling and trust in top notch mangement. If Oak Hill has any sense they will bring these leaders to SA (Cargo360 management) to make this transition seamless and profitable.

 

[27 driver]

Neff holds 15% Oak 85%. Pilot groups need to come together and bring SA's scale to Cargo360's first year pay scale and hopefully adopt their management's culture of making a pilot an asset rather than a liability. Cargo360's quality of life is excellent due to excellent scheduling and trust in top notch mangement. If Oak Hill has any sense they will bring these leaders to SA (Cargo360 management) to make this transition seamless and profitable.

Sounds like a plan. This merger is happening whether we like it or not. I know if the Cargo 360 boys have to assume our schedule they will not be happy. What is the pay scale over there.

 

[dakotaHC8]

A couple things come to mind.

First off, neither list IMO is going to take a hit, as the company has already indicated that it will be a senority merger based on hire date. SAI already has Captain Qual's F/O's flying left seat ahead of more senior, yet less experienced F/O's, so it's a safe assumption the any C360 Captains will remain in the left seat

Second, they have also indicated that an additional Classic, and the planned 2 400BCF's will still be brought on, with plans to add the 777 freighters later on. A merger that adds growth is always better than one that downsizes

The fact that they have indicated a commitment to add newer aircraft to the fleet indicates where things may be headed for the new company. As SAI's 747-200's have provided low cost, yet are not as reliable, nor have the range that newer airframes would deliver. In an ACMI operation, everything is driven by the Customer's demands, and these changes IMO are a reflection of that.

Another point is that Mr. Neff didn't need outside investors to build SAI to 10 aircraft, but to take things to the "next level" with SAI's growth , he obviously thought that partnering with someone else would enable that to occur. So logically, he would not have done this unless he was looking to, and will grow the company into newer airframes.

With the opening up of the cargo market between the US and Korea + China, SAI is now well positioned to take advantage of some prime opportunities in these markets.

should be interesting...

 

[27 driver]

I agree dakota, things could get better with this merger. I just hope we can work on our scheduling issues and make our QOL much better. Any idea when the groups are to be merged?

 

[dakotaHC8]

Well, I would assume that it is fairly quick, considering that their is only one union represented employee group (SAI pilots), The HQ will remain in CT. (so same Feds used), and the operations are so much alike.

The snags might include differences training for those not familiar with the GE or Pratt engines, but it will probably mirror like the requirements for differences training on the many navigational setups SAI uses.

I have heard C360 has Second Officers, some of which are Korean, instead of PFE', so that will be something different to deal with too.

Other than that, I cannot see many real obstacles to the combination. Nor a reason to leave the two operations separate, like the owners of Atlas and Polar felt they had.

Honestly, IMO I do not see many changes, except some new faces. Once the new types come online, it will be interesting to see if they utilize IRO's in our operation.

 

[27 driver]

Well, I would assume that it is fairly quick, considering that their is only one union represented employee group (SAI pilots), The HQ will remain in CT. (so same Feds used), and the operations are so much alike.

The snags might include differences training for those not familiar with the GE or Pratt engines, but it will probably mirror like the requirements for differences training on the many navigational setups SAI uses.

I have heard C360 has Second Officers, some of which are Korean, instead of PFE', so that will be something different to deal with too.

Other than that, I cannot see many real obstacles to the combination. Nor a reason to leave the two operations separate, like the owners of Atlas and Polar felt they had.

Honestly, IMO I do not see many changes, except some new faces. Once the new types come online, it will be interesting to see if they utilize IRO's in our operation.

I would think that they would have to. The rules change a bit with only 2 pilots. You are right about the operations being the same. We already do the same routes. It might be a good chance for the Cargo 360 boys to go somewhere other then Incheon. Hope this goes smooth. Good luck.

 

[FreightGod]

Rumors says C-360 has -400s on order...?

If so, will the senior SA guys be flying those if D.O.H. kicks in?

Or would there be a fence around those and/or premium flying from either side?

Having just been through an acquisition, called merger by the other side, I can see some clouds on the horizon...

That being said, I wish everybody good luck, I have good friends in both camps.

 

[dakotaHC8]

Rumors says C-360 has -400s on order...?

If so, will the senior SA guys be flying those if D.O.H. kicks in?

Or would there be a fence around those and/or premium flying from either side?

Having just been through an acquisition, called merger by the other side, I can see some clouds on the horizon...

That being said, I wish everybody good luck, I have good friends in both camps.

Being as C360 1. Has no pilot union. and 2. Those future aircraft are not even on the property... There is nothing to "fence" off. Any and all pilots from the merged list should have an opportunity to bid into those future aircraft.

But it is not a rumor, the press release stated that the new company, Southern Air Holdings would be bringing on another 200, and then 2 400/BCF's in 08. It also stated their desire to accept, and fly the B777 freighters on firm order.

 

[halfbank]

Hope it works out for both parties... BTW differences training at Southern Air is called reading the manual. If you don't expect much at Southern Air you may be pleasantly surprised once in a while.

 

[unwashed]

Oak hill purchased the 777's about four months ago. The 400's have been in Cargo 360's hands for over six months. Is SAI's "union" recognized by the US government or is it a gentlemen's agreement with Neff and company? Cargo 360 utilization and on time performance during it's short life has been about 400 plus hours per month per airframe and 97% on time, what is SAI's? Having seen your rotations and trips your schedules are ineffiencent with a lot of sitting. If you had a national union maybe that would change? Have you guys thought of that? It is not hard and is the law. If history repeats itself Neff will be moved up to the COB of the airline and Oakhill will replace him, it only took oakhill eight months to do this with H. David Greenberg. He owned 15% of Cargo 360 funny how that number is being repeated with Neff. With Oakhill owning both companies there are two pilot groups and even thought the company is being called SAI holdings it just as well could have been call southern 180. The operating certificate is another matter Cargo 360 was certified under the new rules ATOS (SIC) the combining of certificates maybe harder than Oakhill understands. Best of luck and hold on for a ride.

 

[C-141/C-5]

pay

Sounds like a plan. This merger is happening whether we like it or not. I know if the Cargo 360 boys have to assume our schedule they will not be happy. What is the pay scale over there.

capt 110 1st year FO 67.5