Career Advice for the 2008 hiring boom

[C150Commuter]

Re: Commuter flip that around

Wouldn't you rather get a job because of your expereince and who you are as opposed to a useless degree in some odd ball subject?

The degree is a major part of who you are. Its the classes like "western civilization" that bertie is taking and other "odd ball" subjects, as well as the different types of people you interact with that make you the well rounded person hr looks for.

 

[pilotyip]

For Flychicago, pilot C

Pilot C went right into the Army out of High School, two years later he got picked up for the WO flight program. At the end of his 6 year committment, he has 2500 hours, ATP MEL, Type in the CE-550 and BE-200, made good money, picked the regional he wanted to work for, picks up an additional $700-$800 flying in the Guard on the side. But he did not benefit from the mind expanding experienices of college. When you go into the military, you are practically thrown into a new world. You are surrounded by people your own age, expressing new viewpoints, opinions and beliefs. You must learn to become more accepting of differences between those around you. It is not easy to stray from home and begin a life on your own, being forced not only to live, eat, sleep, and operate without anyone to help you, but also have the guts to keep focused and study without your parents' threats. You are your own source of motivation. There are many ways to mature beside the traditional college route. By your analogy, students who live at home because they can not afford to live on campus are not gaining the full benefit of the college degree. It is the person, not the degree, that makes the individual. We have turned dowd many pilots with college degrees, because they could not do the job.

 

[banned username 2]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.......and then pilot B wakes up from his dream and realizes that 1 in 5 applicants with a college degree are getting interviews while 1 in 100 applicants without degrees are getting interviews. He then realizes that he missed the hiring boom and will be working at USA Jet for the rest of his career.

THAT is a fact!

Get the degree... an education is WELL worth it... Why start off behind the power curve and limited in your options?

 

[trainerjet]

This industry has always been and will always be a HIGHLY competitive industry. Sure, you may gamble that during the next hiring boom, which I predict will come no where close to matching the previous one in terms of sheer number of hires, there is an outside chance that there will be a few pilots hired without a degree. Are you willing to take the chance that you might be one of them?

Pilotyip has always advocated not getting a college degree, and using that time to build your flight experience at whatever fly-by-night bottom feeder might hire you in order to gain this experience, so that while those without the college education (but more flight time) will be getting the jobs at the 2nd and 3rd tier (and below) companies, those with the degrees, (but with perhaps less flight time) will be competing for the choice jobs.

Realistically, a college degree is just as important as an ATP. Why arm yourself with something less than the next guy when it comes to stacking your credentials with those of who you will be competing with for these jobs? To choose not to get a degree, and instead using that time to build time at some bottom feeder company is just plain stupid, and so are those that think this is wise career advice.

 

[generaltso]

A degree may not seem like much, however... and you certainly do not need a degree to be a pilot.

However, I think as far as HR goes, they would prefer to see people with degrees. See HR doesn't know you. You are a sheet of paper to them in a huge stack. You may be the greatest pilot in the world, but unless you put that on your resume, HR doesn't know.

When someone gets a degree, it doesn't mean they are smart enough - it means that they can succeed in undertaking a huge task. They can stick to it and see things through.

Now I am not saying someone without a degree lacks those qualities, but like I said before HR doesn't know you!

I think people lose sight of the big picture - what they are to HR. You are a application. You are a sheet of paper. The more boxes you can check, the more likely you are to get an interview... which we all know is the hardest part.

My advise to anyone is get your degree in this downturn and you will be better prepared when it comes back around. Go to your local state or community college... whatever. Just get it.

 

[pilotyip]

Who are you to define a career

You might only be able to get to a mid level aviation job, where you suffer throught life at 100K per year, oh well it is a rotten job, but someone has to do it. It is not for the degreed pilots on this board to define everyone's career. For Falcon Capt, your statisics may be correct by Air Inc stanards, but in the late 90's almost every one of our non-degreed pilots got jobs at either majors, or Nationals, like Air Tran, Spirit. It could be non-degree pilots only make up 5% of the applicants, but for 8,000 hour 121 background pilots with multi jet types, their hire ratio must be very close to degreed pilots.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

SHOW ME THE NUMBERS

Okay, somebody here has easy access to pilot hiring numbers for 1998. I did a year ago, but my password expired. I wanna see how many people were hired by major airlines without degrees. I'll just say perhaps 1%....maybe 5 to be generous. The point is not what job is good for whom. Many people would be happy making 100k at a mid-level job. In that case, I suggest a separate thread entitled "can I get a good mid-level job without a degree?". Sure ya can. (that number might be around 15%).

The question is: Major airline job versus 4-year degree. Show me numbers to convince me otherwise, and I will gladly change my position. I personally know of a whopping ZERO number of people who have been hired by major airlines in the last 5 years without degrees.

I've always hated these stupid surveys, but I smell one coming on...

 

[Kingairrick]

That was going to be my point.

Why post a question and then argue to the death, the honest opinion answers you are getting? Getting, from people who statistically, in at least a few cases, are ahead of you in their careers? (I learned that in college.)

Here's another viewpoint for you to try to repute:
You might actually learn something in college! wouldn't that be worth something?

 

[banned username 2]

The irony of this entire thread is that PilotYIP has a degree... two of them as a matter of fact, the latter being a Master's Degree.

Me thinks PilotYIP just felt like arguing so started a thread he knew would cause an argument.

PilotYIP, since you singled me out in your last post, I respond to you. I realize many guys from USA Jet went to AirTran, Spirit, and the likes during the last boom, you know why? Because there was a "Qualified Pilot Shortage" of sorts. These LCC's hire non-degreed people because they will work for lower wages and the company can keep their costs down. I don't think many, if any of your non-degreed guys went to the likes of UAL, AA, CAL, DAL or probably even SWA for that matter.

You can come on here spouting how you are making $100,000 at a job that non-degreed guys have... But my (rhetorical) question to you is, how many years did it take you to get to that pay? I know for a fact I am 25 years your junior, and from the pay numbers you quoted I am quite a bit ahead. Not trying to be harsh, but if you are going to spout facts, give them all the details so they can compare apples to apples.

 

[Kingairrick]

By the way...

I know several pilots who are getting interviewed NOW (2003) and they ALL have degrees.

 

[Alaskaairlines]

I would appreciate if you guys give me some advise on what to do in a situation liek this:

I will be finishing my first year of college next semester, after I complete my Comm/Multi I have a good chance of getting on with a 121 carrier, here up north, because of working there (similar to an internship), I oviously won't turn down the twin turbine 121 job because of school, if I am locally based I still should be able to go to school , but if not, is the Embry-Riddle on-line degree program efficient? Will a normal guy like me be able to do it in a timely fashion? Let me know what you guys think and if you have any advise for me.

 

[greyhound]

Pilotyip does have a point...

How CAN anyone define what a career should mean to someone?

Not everyone has major airline aspirations.
If someone wanted to be a career CFI, or stay at the regionals, would you still tell them to take the time and get a degree?

Don't depend on others, to enjoy "YOUR" career.

 

[slinky]

to "alaska...."
I would honestly suggest that you continue to get your degree. Reasons 1. It may help you get that "better" interview. Better being determined by you for your life style.
2. Avaition is fickle. You may loose your ticket do to some strange medical reason. I know plenty of great pilots who are now doing something else due to a med problem that they could not control.
3. What seems to be your hearts desire at 22 may not be your dream at 32.
I would invest in yourself. If you want to go to school part time and fly part time, maybe that will work for you. I really believe that you will probably drop the degreee over time this way due to the rigors of flying the line. In my humble and uninformed view get the degree and get it in something that you would like to do if you were in an accident and unable to fly

slinky

 

[bobbysamd]

Here we go again . . .

Or, Yip, as Ronald Reagan told Jimmy Carter in 1980, "There you go again."

I didn't read each and every comment after Yip's initial post. His argument against the degree presupposes that one can be hired and advance in aviation without the degree. I submit that (1) that is a false supposition/assumption, and (2) even if true, your efforts will be impeded greatly without the degree. In other words, without the degree you will embark on a long and difficult journey with a strike against you; the strike being that you don't have the degree while most of your competition does. Why shoot yourself in the foot before taking the first step?

Once again, do not assume that having a four-year degree automatically grants you the right to a job. It does not, not even a degree from Harvard. The education aside, the degree is another good door-opener. I would submit that having a degree got me two jobs, my very first at ERAU and my job instructing at Mesa. Had I not been a college man, I would not have been considered for either. Word to those who might consider instructing as their career.

Once more, I will say that we as pilots have far less control over our credentials that those in other industries. Our flight time and experience very much govern our success. That may be Yip's argument - but we owe it to ourselves to present the very best credentials possible. We have control over some of these credentials, such as the certificates and ratings we earn and the educational quals we can offer. The degree fits in that category. Fate and luck may decide which jobs we get to build time, but each person has total control over training and educational qualifications. In other words, you can get the degree. It is a decision that you and not fate can make. Get it. Take control.

 

[Flyingtoohigh]

I would appreciate if you guys give me some advise on what to do in a situation like this...

That's a tough question there. The good thing about college credit is that once you earn it, it's yours for good. You can transfer it (to a limited degree) and it doesn't expire.

I'm a little farther along in college but I can relate to your predicament. Most guys I know would give anything for 121 jet time right about now. My advice is to keeping asking folks who have completed ERAU's distance program, or any other distance program you would be interested.

Earning your degree make the difference if you are ever furloughed, trying to switch airlines, desire a career change, or have medical difficulties. With 121 jet time, a degree, and a few years line experience, you could really be set to go and still south of 30 years old.

Getting 121 jet time alone is great, but when furlough time comes, you and hundreds of other pilots are out on the street. Guess what else everybody else has? That's right, 121 jet time. A degree could mean a new job or at least something to do until you are picked back up again.

An online degree program might be the ticket for you. Even a local community college will be tough to attend while flying line and down right impossible on reserve.