Career Advice for the 2008 hiring boom

[Dave Benjamin]

I would appreciate if you guys give me some advise on what to do in a situation liek this:

I will be finishing my first year of college next semester, after I complete my Comm/Multi I have a good chance of getting on with a 121 carrier, here up north, because of working there (similar to an internship), I oviously won't turn down the twin turbine 121 job because of school, if I am locally based I still should be able to go to school , but if not, is the Embry-Riddle on-line degree program efficient? Will a normal guy like me be able to do it in a timely fashion? Let me know what you guys think and if you have any advise for me.

I am working on a degree through the ERAU extended campus (internet) program and a coworker is also doing his masters the same way.
We both like the program and the flexibility. It is a lot of work though. You don't get away without studying and in some respects it can be harder than traditional college settings. If you live near a resident center you can do some of your classes there if your schedule works out.
If you want to eventually end up at a major your chances are much better with the degree. Even if you don't go to a major I've found the classes to be relevant and useful. They are also much more "real world" than the classes I took in college nearly 20 years ago.
One thing I have to say to Alaskaairlines who made the post I quoted is that hey, you're still a young pup. Ultimately you could go traditional classroom or ERAU extended campus and you'll do fine either way. You seem very motivated which is important. Do what feels right to you and don't take everything on this board too seriously. A lot of guys that busted their hump to get hired by UAL are on the street and their slacker friends that hung out for a while at a commuter before getting on at JetBlue will be upgrading in a year. My point is that success is part timing and part luck. People make the best decision with the information they have and sometimes get it wrong. Noone has a crystal ball. The decisions in the example I just made looked very good at the time. Unfortunately the UAL furloughee is back to square one flying for a regional if he's lucky. Fast forward 5 years and who knows. JetBlue could be out of business and the UAL furloughee is back at mainline pulling down 100K plus. This whole industry can start to look like a craps table.

 

[dasmith]

get a degree

college is a lot of fun, especially the ladies, do you know more females get degrees then men? go enjoy in the imbalance

 

[Frank Abagnale]

I would appreciate if you guys give me some advise on what to do in a situation liek this:

I will be finishing my first year of college next semester, after I complete my Comm/Multi I have a good chance of getting on with a 121 carrier, here up north, because of working there (similar to an internship), I oviously won't turn down the twin turbine 121 job because of school, if I am locally based I still should be able to go to school , but if not, is the Embry-Riddle on-line degree program efficient? Will a normal guy like me be able to do it in a timely fashion? Let me know what you guys think and if you have any advise for me.

time is everything in this buisness. especaily turbine time, even better 121 turbine. if you can do both at the same time, more power to you. i know alot of f.o.'s taking classes online while they fly the line. 4 year degree should not be a limiting factor for you for a couple of years. plenty of time to live the dream.

best of luck

 

[msw]

Why is it EITHER "get the degree" or "do the professional flying"? I was a CFI by my sophomore year in college, and flying Part 135 scheduled pax and frieght (piston twins) by my Junior year. I was, essentially, working full time and going to school full time. Ultimately, when I graduated with a BS degree in engineering, I also had approx 2500 hrs TT , about 800 hrs multi, and the "You Passed The ATP, But Bring This Letter Back To The FAA When You Turn 23" Letter. And in a good position to move on to further professional aviation pursuits. The point is, a young person CAN do both. Yes, it is hard, but what better time to do it, than when you are young and (relatively) unencumbered?

 

[Frac Daddy]

pilotyip,

Here is a REAL scenario for you: Within a couple of months of each other, six pilots at a certain fractional interview at Southwest; five have degrees and one doesn't. The five with the degrees sail through the interview and get hired. The one without the degree gets badgered by the interviewer because he doesn't have one even though his current employer has a tuition reimbursement program. Although this pilot has more time than the rest of the other pilots, he is the only one rejected.

A REAL fact: FedEx REQUIRES a four year degree.

Another REAL fact: Your options, should you be furloughed or lose your medical, are more limited without a degree.


Get a degree! Any degree!!

 

[Alaskaairlines]

Hey there fellas!

Well I certainly do appreciate all the encouragement and advise! Dave Benjamin, Frank Abagnale, etc... thanks for the words of advise and encouragement! Sure means a lot when school keeps you extremely busy!

I'll keep you guys posted and i'd appreciate more tips!

 

[Dutch]

Is this a realistic comparison?

While I agree that all things being equal a degree may tip the scales I wonder how accurate this thread really is. No one, degree or not is guaranteed the results that pilot B got...I'd love to have 4500 hours in that time frame but many things must fall into place for that to happen.

my $0.02

 

[Vortilon]

1. There is no quick, guaranteed way to get anywhere in aviation....so a "head start" building time guarantees nothing. Someone will always have more hours than you.

2. You will spend most of your aviation life trying to fulfull certain requirements so you can check certain boxes on applications to get that "big job" you are looking for...a degree is merely one of those boxes and is a lot easier to get now than when you are 30 and working for a living...so why not just do it?

3. As someone else mentioned, you take your degree with you through life so no matter what you do...your degree will benefit you.

4. And most importantly, your degree and depth of life experience will also benefit ME if I fly with you.

I don't know many pilots that talk about flying all day when we're in the cockpit...how boring...not to mention redundant! Flying stories are meant to be told over beers on the overnight. When I'm cruising for 4 hours I want to hear your fun college stories, how you are interested in certain cars, your investment strategies, your interest in history, how you are buying your first house, how your painful divorce is rendering your penniless, etc.! If you don't have a degree I'll just have to listen to: "This TCAS sure is neat....I remember once when I got this TA and...."

Go enjoy your college years, earn the degree and THEN jump headfirst into aviation. You have plenty of time to fly later.

And one personal point from my own experience....every job I've been able to get in aviation so far (flight instructor, regional airline pilot, major airline pilot & now charter pilot) has had a lot to do with help from my friends...all of whom I met in college and are still a part of my life. There is no gray-haired mentor out there who will help you get every interview....turns out its your peers and lifelong friends that help you out in this business and you're going to need all the help you can get.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[de Pez]

Above a certain threshold, total flight hours count for very little. That threshold will vary depending upon the individuals' background (military/civilian) and the types of aicraft flown, among half a dozen other variables...So how do the HR people decide who to call for an interview? They look at the total package....Recommendations, background, recency of experience, PIC, and total flight time.

Once the interview is achieved, a degree can make a tremendous difference between one candidate and another also. Imagine sitting in a room with 10 people having comparable flight times, no DUI's, and all the appropriate boxes checked. All except the one individual who hasn't checked college degree. He may be hired, but statistically, probably not.

As of May 2001, Air Inc. stats show that 88% of civilian new hires at "major" airlines had a college degree, and 99% of military new hires had "4 or more years of college".

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

As of May 2001, Air Inc. stats show that 88% of civilian new hires at "major" airlines had a college degree, and 99% of military new hires had "4 or more years of college".

In all of 2000, here's the breakdown of 1023 of the hired pilots to major airlines.

89% of the civilians had 4 year degrees or more. But that doesn't mean the other 11% didn't go to school. A full 10% more had at least 2-3 years of college. Only a mere 1% had less than two years of college. I'd say this supports the need for college to fly for a major .

Now, if one looks at the numbers for the Nationals and Regionals, it supports PilotYIP's point that one can have a good flying career without a college education. I'd say this is a good graph to refer to for decision-making in that regard. Your mileage may vary (as Goldie from the naval aviation safety school often said).
http://www.jet-jobs.com/press releases/chartstats.html

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Omitted from this chart are an unkown number of corporate pilots, many of whom I'm sure are out there without degrees, but I bet they are also in the minority. I still stand by my recommendation to a young aspiring professional pilot to get a degree.

Just another note about that chart. Look at the disparity between jet regionals and non-jet regionals as it relates to college experience. I'd say it can be argued that generally, jet regional is a better job pay-wise than a non-jet regional. The folks with less than two years of college were twice as likely to be at the non-jet regional. Those with 2-3 years of college were also quite a bit more likely to be at the non-jet. Granted, there aren't as many non-jet operators out there today, but the stat must be worth something. This was all in 2000. I doubt anyone would argue that it's a heck of a lot more competetive out there these days.

 

[banned username 2]

Omitted from this chart are an unkown number of corporate pilots, many of whom I'm sure are out there without degrees, but I bet they are also in the minority.

Most of the good Corporate jobs require a 4 year college degree.

It is funny how PilotYIP hasn't responded to his own thread lately.

 

[pilotyip]

exactly

That is what I have been saying all along, The individual will define what a successful aviation career is, and if a person is happy as a National Captain without a 4 yr degree, he is happy and it is not up to this board to tell him he is not successful. He depends upon how you define success. Even though I have been refered to me as a looser here at USA Jet, I am very happy here and have turned down other jobs. I am one of the luckiest guys around, becasue other than the majors, I have done just about everything I wanted to in my life. Growing up I wanted to be a Navy pilot, that defined my major life goal. Just having fun since.

 

[banned username 2]

Re: exactly

That is what I have been saying all along, The individual will define what a successful aviation career is, and if a person is happy as a National Captain without a 4 yr degree, he is happy and it is not up to this board to tell him he is not successful. He depends upon how you define success. Even though I have been refered to me as a looser here at USA Jet, I am very happy here and have turned down other jobs. I am one of the luckiest guys around, becasue other than the majors, I have done just about everything I wanted to in my life. Growing up I wanted to be a Navy pilot, that defined my major life goal. Just having fun since.

Then why are you defining someones career by trying to limit their options? Not having a 4 year degree certainly limits the options of a Professional pilot. Having that 4 year degree allows you opportunity at jobs that do AND do not require 4 year degrees... You get the best of both worlds.

 

[bigD]

The individual will define what a successful aviation career is, and if a person is happy as a National Captain without a 4 yr degree, he is happy and it is not up to this board to tell him he is not successful. He depends upon how you define success.

I dont think anyone here is saying that guys without degrees aren't successful. Obviously success if how you define it.

These threads tend to arise from someone asking whether or not they should get a 4 year degree, and most people reply in the affirmative because the degree gives any given person a statistically higher chance of getting hired. That's really all there is to it.