CAPT Grounded - Karma Prevails!

[Flying Ninja]

Amish, AGAIN, my goal is not to solicit sympathy. I'm over chasing the airline career. My ONLY goal is to spread the word that CAPT is not the place to train. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

 

[kf4amu]

Amish, AGAIN, my goal is not to solicit sympathy. I'm over chasing the airline career. My ONLY goal is to spread the word that CAPT is not the place to train. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Change your message. Instead of saying "DONT GO TO CAPT!"

say...

"There is no guaranteed shortcut!"


I was perfectly content with paying for my CFI/II and instructing (I like teaching) or flying freight (I still want to), but I couldnt pass up the opportunity that happened to come along.

The problem is people think they deserve a job because of some "special" training they paid a lot of money for. Yes, that company may have given them empty promises, but if you listen to enough corporate earnings conference calls, you will realize every CEO makes empty promises. It's part of life, and there are always ways to get out of the legalities of making that "commitment".

Many of us have lost money making stupid decisions in life. You just lost a lot more than normal.

 

[J.Otto]

so do you think you could command a dc-9, now that you're typed in it? that deal sounds gimmicky. why woulda new pilot require a type in a dc-9? its a selling point. thats a lot of debt too. do you still have an interst in flying on the side? you should. maybe it'll revive some aspirations. also, talk to a lawyer or something. maybe this can get fixed.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

This guy is living at home with his parents and paying back a 100K + loan. According to his posts from other threads, he has to pay back somewhere around $2K+ every month for a LOAN. Imagine working to pay $2K+ every month to some bank for what he perceives as a fruitless endeavor?

Call me what you will, but if I were in his position, I'd save the money I'm earning and start a new life. So what if you default on the loan. No one is going to lend you money wit ha low paying job and that kind of debt. I wonder what his CC debts are. He needs to move on with life. Paying that bill for the next 20 yrs is going to kill you, unless you have a well paying job, which doesn't seem to be the case.

Its not my fault I could not afford my mortgage, they gave me more than I could afford.

The credit card companies should not have given me $100,000 in credit if they did not want me to spend it.

It was not my fault I got drunk and killed those people, the bartender served me too much.

So what if my company lost a trillion dollars last year, I need a 50 million dollar jet and a 2 million dollar toilet with a 100 million dollar golden parachute.


IT IS CALLED ETHICS AND PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Something this country is lacking and is the reason we are in our situation.

 

[Flying Ninja]

so do you think you could command a dc-9, now that you're typed in it? that deal sounds gimmicky. why woulda new pilot require a type in a dc-9? its a selling point. thats a lot of debt too. do you still have an interst in flying on the side? you should. maybe it'll revive some aspirations. also, talk to a lawyer or something. maybe this can get fixed.

When I graduated, I felt very confident in flying that DC-9 simulator and run the procedures. As for commanding it, even I knew that I was a far cry from PIC in that type. It never ever crossed my mind. I knew back then, and I still support this sentiment that commanding a jet takes years of experience.

Yes, that DC-9 was a selling point. But not to me. It was a selling point for CAPT to sell to the regional airlines. The pitch they gave us was that "with that DC-9 type, you proved to the airlines that you can be trained and handle jet flying and that puts you a cut above the rest". Yeah, to me, flight time was more valuable, hence the reason why I decided early in my days at CAPT to fly outside of the program above and beyond the 225 hours CAPT gave us.

I do fly today, for fun. But it's getting to the point where it's rather boring and I'm finding myself exploring that envelope to keep interested, which, I also know is not a safe attitude. I'm working towards my CFI but it costs money and I don't have a lot of it to spread around...but at least I have time on my side to go at the pace that I can afford.

I did speak to a lawyer after I got out of the program and showed them all the literature and web site print outs at the time. The lawyer basically told me that everything I showed him was written by a lawyer to carefully deceive the consumer. He advised me that next time I decide to spend a vast amount of money to consult a lawyer first. And I think he's right. And hence, why I think it's absolutely important that people know that scam programs like CAPT is out there, and that they need to be aware. Fundamentally, I love aviation. And I hate to see good people befallen to a fate that I did because I was not well advised. Unfortunately, my message didn't reach the 160+ Chinese students who will walk out of there with nothing. And this incident is becoming very publicized and I'm hoping that the Chinese government will intervene since $16 million dollars is not exactly a small chunk of money they took from these students.

 

[hydroflyer]

They didn't send my resume out to any of their "affiliates". I did ask them in Feb/2006 to send it to Air Wisconsin. Supposedly they mailed it out a whole month later. They had my resume since Oct/2005 ready to go. I guess it takes a lot to print out my resume, stuff an envelope, seal it, stamp it, address it, and mail it.

And no word from Air Wisconsin.

Did you try to send out your resume yourself or just rely on them to do it?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

First off, I wouldn't be stupid enough to take on such debt in the first place. All my ratings were paid out of pocket and I owe zero from my flight training right through CFI's. No RJ bridge course or anything like that. It took me several years to go from a private pilot to a CFI all because I was not born rich. I had to work for my money at lousy office jobs and after almost 5 years, I managed to procure all of the ratings. It sure would have been nice to have parents to contributed maybe even $100 towards my passion. Nope. I got zilch.

I wouldn't pay back that insane amount for something I don't even have a onnection to. How can you sleep knowing you owe that kind of money for NOTHING? Don't think I lack financial responsibility, but if I were Ninja, in his particular situation, he's going to lose out on a lot of life by spending the next few decades paying back a loan that was fruitless. Unfortunately, HE SHOULD NOT pay it back. His credit is most likely shot anyway. I doubt he could increase his credit line or even attain a mortgage. He's living at home and working a low paying job. Accoridng to ojne of his posts, ALL his money is diverted into paying this enormous loan back. Is that fair for him? It's an option one needsto consider. The prudent thing would be to save up money you earn and use it to fund a new beginning, one not dependant on credit, but on savings.

A mortgage for a home which translates into value or an asset which appreciates is entirely different. For one, you own property which should appreciate in value. It's tangible and you live in it.

Its not my fault I could not afford my mortgage, they gave me more than I could afford.

The credit card companies should not have given me $100,000 in credit if they did not want me to spend it.

It was not my fault I got drunk and killed those people, the bartender served me too much.

So what if my company lost a trillion dollars last year, I need a 50 million dollar jet and a 2 million dollar toilet with a 100 million dollar golden parachute.


IT IS CALLED ETHICS AND PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Something this country is lacking and is the reason we are in our situation.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Ninja, I dont know how old you are, but this is going to drag your life down. Save your hard earned money. This is economy is in dire straits. You paying interst and principle towards a loan like that is insane. Let me ask you, how long has it been since you began payingthe loan back and how much of that 100K + has been paid off thus far?

I for one, think you should skip on that, especially if youre a young guy under 30.

 

[Lynxman]

Did you try to send out your resume yourself or just rely on them to do it?

I 2nd this. You sound like you where done with training when hiring was at peak. WTF did you not just make your own resume up. If you figured you payed them money to do it for you then you clearly thought you could buy yourself into this career.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

First off, I wouldn't be stupid enough to take on such debt in the first place. All my ratings were paid out of pocket and I owe zero from my flight training right through CFI's. No RJ bridge course or anything like that. It took me several years to go from a private pilot to a CFI all because I was not born rich. I had to work for my money at lousy office jobs and after almost 5 years, I managed to procure all of the ratings. It sure would have been nice to have parents to contributed maybe even $100 towards my passion. Nope. I got zilch.

I wouldn't pay back that insane amount for something I don't even have a onnection to. How can you sleep knowing you owe that kind of money for NOTHING? Don't think I lack financial responsibility, but if I were Ninja, in his particular situation, he's going to lose out on a lot of life by spending the next few decades paying back a loan that was fruitless. Unfortunately, HE SHOULD NOT pay it back. His credit is most likely shot anyway. I doubt he could increase his credit line or even attain a mortgage. He's living at home and working a low paying job. Accoridng to ojne of his posts, ALL his money is diverted into paying this enormous loan back. Is that fair for him? It's an option one needsto consider. The prudent thing would be to save up money you earn and use it to fund a new beginning, one not dependant on credit, but on savings.

A mortgage for a home which translates into value or an asset which appreciates is entirely different. For one, you own property which should appreciate in value. It's tangible and you live in it.

I never said it was a smart move to get in that kind of debt, actually it was very irresponsible, but it is a move he made. He needs to man up and pay it. I think racking up huge debt and not paying it back should be criminal. It is theft plain and simple. It is obvious from your post and society at large that the majority of people do not feel fulfilling their obligations are the right thing to do. And that is why we are in this situation. It is really sad.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I agree that it's not ethical to skip out on debt, but look at his position. He's up rivers creek with this size of a loan and nothingto show for it. He isn't intending on a career. What he is now is an indentured servant, having to pay back all that money. He's going to tread water for years payingthis back when he could do better by saving what he earns. If it's the difference between starving/roof over head and paying back some impersonal bank a truck load of money plus interest, I'd go with defaulting. I mean how is this poor guy going to get on with life if he's contributing it all to some dumb loan.

I don't know what the ramifications are for defaulting or whether it can be discharged via a bankruptcy, but my impression is that this guy is drowning in this debt which according to him, the prgoram didnt live up to his expectations.

It's no fun being an indentured servant. I've had a similar situation before, so I speak from experience.

 

[Lynxman]

He messed up now he has to pay the consequences. The economy is like this because people are not responsible and leave beyond their means.

 

[Cardenal]

[FONT=&quot]http://aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=54b6fc63-1e7a-4ff8-a45f-a38f6f68428d&

http://www.news-journalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/News/Flagler/flaHEAD02FLAG012609.htm

Man, I can't wait for this program to take a dirt nap for good. I just feel really bad for all their students...wish I had a way to warn them that the snake oil they bought was the same brand of BS that burned me and some others! They took my money, and my dream to fly for a career! They lied about all those "guaranteed interviews" from the beginning! My 10-12 months turned out to be over 18 months! And the student they interviewed is estimating his/her "1-year program" to be a possible 2-year program!! I hope he packed enough cash in his luggage to take him/her through that extra year!


As I said in the past, stay the hell away from this CRAPT program! Karma man...I'm going out for a beer to celebrate their demise! Spread the word! CAPT is definitely NOT the place you want to send anyone for flight training!
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Is it possible, juuuust possible, that is was your attitude (to life, work, CAPT and everything) that resulted in poor success for YOU??? hmmmmmmmm. All your posts sure make me wonder

CAPT had great success with many people. But everything in life--and everything in aviation, for sure--is attitude dependent.


[/FONT]

 

[JustaNumber]

Ninja, Amish says you are up a creek financially, but have nothing to show for it. Nothing could be further from the truth.

First, in a very literal sense, your own lawyer admitted that you received everything that was legally promised to you. That CAPT was extremely unethical in their dealings with you unfortunately doesn't change your legal obligation to them, or especially your legal obligation to your bank, who had nothing to do with CAPT's sliminess. That you are committed to fulfiling your obligation is a character trait which should be commended, regardless of what others are saying.

I do find your story disturbing, though, and not for the obvious reasons. Yes, you made one of life's stupid decisions. Yes your financial life sucks right now. The important thing, though, is what you take away from it all, and it doesn't sound like you have taken the right message from it. You are bitter and angry, dwelling on the past instead of trying to improve yourself.

One of my favorite sayings is "life consists of 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you react to it." What have you learned from this that will help you later in life? To simply say you learned that CAPT is a dishonest venture and you are dedicating your life to spreading this newfound knowledge is a cop-out, and will do nothing to make you a better person. So I will ask again, what have you REALLY LEARNED from your mistake? You have to be brutally honest with yourself if you want any respect, and if you want to move on and have any chance of a happy life. This is what you really bought for your hundred grand.

Most of us can probably point out one or two huge screwups in our lives. I know I can. But those screwups helped me figure out what was most important in my life (in my case, my integrity, my wife, and flying, in that order), and I can truly say I've never been happier. I honestly wish the same for you.

 

[Flying Ninja]

[FONT=&quot]Is it possible, juuuust possible, that is was your attitude (to life, work, CAPT and everything) that resulted in poor success for YOU??? hmmmmmmmm. All your posts sure make me wonder

CAPT had great success with many people. But everything in life--and everything in aviation, for sure--is attitude dependent.
[/FONT]

Actually, I had a great attitude at the program. I never stirred the pot. I never talked back to the program management despite the fact that I knew after their Air Tran lie became transparent (2 months into the program for me). I remained hopeful that they would do the right thing. My attitude changed when they F-ed me.

I understand the whole attitude thing. Believe me, I was not like this until I realized they were not going to make good on their guaranteed interviews (and I qualify this with, I wasn't expecting a job, just interviews). The day came closer and closer to the end of my loan grace period and I needed a job. And CAPT was just dragging its feet along with me...and I had to act. Get a job and pay the loan, or ruin my credit.

 

[Flying Ninja]

Ninja, I dont know how old you are, but this is going to drag your life down. Save your hard earned money. This is economy is in dire straits. You paying interst and principle towards a loan like that is insane. Let me ask you, how long has it been since you began payingthe loan back and how much of that 100K + has been paid off thus far?

I for one, think you should skip on that, especially if youre a young guy under 30.

I'm 37 now. All my money is going to paying that loan, life expenses, and what extra I have left over is going to the principle of the loan, and my CFI endeavor (which explains why it's taken me almost 3 years to get signed off).

I've paid back about $18,000 of it so I still got about $83,000 left over the next 12.5 years (15 year loan). Believe me, I know my life isn't going to anything stellar. I've accepted that my life is about working to pay back that loan. And in that, I realized that there's no more aviation career future for me anymore. But whatever, that's my life now until I win the lottery or pay back the debt, which ever comes first...and I don't play lotto.

 

[COOPERVANE]

You have never answered the question. Why didn't you apply to ASA, or Pinnacle, or Chautauqua or republic?

 

[Flying Ninja]

First, in a very literal sense, your own lawyer admitted that you received everything that was legally promised to you.

I do find your story disturbing, though, and not for the obvious reasons. Yes, you made one of life's stupid decisions. Yes your financial life sucks right now. The important thing, though, is what you take away from it all, and it doesn't sound like you have taken the right message from it. You are bitter and angry, dwelling on the past instead of trying to improve yourself.
...

Yes, the literature did say I'd get 550 total flight training hours. Nothing in there said anything about you can only log 225 hours of flight time that the airlines actually care about. So yes, I LITERALLY got screwed by legalese...amongst other things.

To answer your question, what I have taken away from all this is a very valuable lesson. And the lesson is this: There are fundamentally evil, greedy, immoral, dishonorable, and unethical people in aviation.

When I first entered this aviation world, I was so blown away by how professional and how happy people were doing what they love. I always thought people in aviation was a cut above the rest. Yes, it was idealistic and naive on my part, but that was the lesson I learned. According to you, it cost me $101,000 to learn.

In this lesson, I realized that if I was taken, then someone else could be taken. And that became my mission. To try to reach out to those people so that they don't ever have to go through the mental and emotional anguish that I did, not to mention their hard earned money. I've reached some folks and their decision not to go to CAPT was firmly based on my experience. So as long as CAPT exists, I will continue to reach out to people who will listen. Ultimately, the decision is theirs. I can only hope they make the right decision.

Unfortunately, today, over 160 students will very likely face a similar reality that I did. If only the world read these pilot forums... *sigh*

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Honestly, find out what the repercussions are for defaulting. $100K plus interst is a LOT of money and I for one don't think it's fair for you to have to pay this off. These banks aren't exactly ethical either.

Integrity is honorable and all, but c'mon, this is your life. Savethe money you earn and do other things. The default can always be explained. Your credit rating will eventually recover. I really hate to see you pay back that whopper of a loan and not have it count for something.

You know, if you got some time and instructed, I'm almost certain that you'd be able to get a flying job. You can still be hired with a less than perfect credit history. Not just with airlines, but many other jobs.

Like I said, it bothers me to see someone fritter away their money. What got you i9nto this debt is still there. Stop paying back that loan. It's not as bad as you might think. Please explore this option and see what isthe worst to come of it. Times are very tough right now and to dump your hard earned money into loan instead of saving it is bad judgment. You don't know how long you'll be employed and when you do get canned, then what? Sure the bank wont get their money, but now you've got nothing to fall back on.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Believe me, I know my life isn't going to anything stellar. I've accepted that my life is about working to pay back that loan. And in that, I realized that there's no more aviation career future for me anymore. But whatever, that's my life now until I win the lottery or pay back the debt, which ever comes first...and I don't play lotto.

This is failure and depression speaking. Get this negativity out of your head.

FK that loan. You will be miserable on your deathbed if you plan to spend the next 15 years paying back a loan. It's going to eat you up inside, if it hasn't already. Clearly, you are still very disturbed about this. It's not healthy psyhcologically to continue to dwell on this, even if your intention is to warn others. For that, there's a search function and buyer beware. You've said you peace.