CAL/UAL Merger Done Next Week

[Flopgut]

DOH is the only fair way of merging, rookie.

K. Why don't you break this down:

We still have a large number of old Frontier guys at CAL. UAL took these guys planes, jobs and futures and dropped every one of them. Merger policy at the time was heavily set to DOH and UAL's senior wanted no part of seeing these FAL pilots get any version of DOH. It's amazing that isn't brought up too much, but it's the truth. Now here we are, possibly merging with UAL...I'm surprised (but happy) these guys aren't calling for the same.

Face it, pilots of your generation are the ones who screwed up merger policy to begin with. You stood by and let those FAL guys get screwed. ALPA should have put UAL in trusteeship.

 

[Mr.B]

That's fine, CAL pilots will then oppose the merger adamantly (since UA pilots support it) and we potentially won't have a merger.

There are 10-12 year pilots at UA that are 500-1000 people down the seniority list on furlough. How long do you think it will be before those guys get recalled? 3-5 years minimum would be my guess. There are guys that were hired in 2008 that will very likely get recalled by the end of the year, which is straight from manpower planning people. CAL has a lot of retirements in proportion to the amount of pilots once age 65 starts kicking in (Cal guys can expect 300-400 retirements a year for 4-5 years in a row, thats a lot of movement, not including growth from the 787s which 6 are scheduled to be on property in 2011 if Boeing get's its stuff together)

Is it fair to guys at CAL that would move up in seniority fairly quickly to get put behind a guy at UA that hasn't moved up in years?

Help me out here...do CAL pilots have a legal instrument to block any potential mergers?

Also, the vast majority of the UAL pilots I talk to would rather not merge and grow within...every pilot wants that. Getting rid of Tilton is the ONLY reason anyone would want to merge.

Standing in the way of a big payday for senior management is futile for pilots. Delusions of grandeur will only serve to drain your resources in court and make some lawyer a lot of money.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Gents all good points above. However the big reason for a merger is the landscape has changed dramatically. If you aren't big on a world scale you will either be stepped on or consumed.

 

[johnsonrod]

Gents all good points above. However the big reason for a merger is the landscape has changed dramatically. If you aren't big on a world scale you will either be stepped on or consumed.

Wrong. The big reason for a merger: management bonuses and "success fees."

 

[Yuppyguppy]

yeah that too

 

[General Lee]

DOH with fence is the only fair way to merge. Longevity is saved, 20 years = 20 years and everybody is happy. What you propose only benefits a few. Ive been through a few mergers and DOH is the fairest way. With CAL/ UAL, you will have CAL newhires placed next to UAL pilots iwth 10 years seniority. TOTALLY UNFIAR!

You can try to get DOH, but the last two major cases went the other way. USAir East tried, and failed, and so did NWA. Very unlikely. If you are ten year guy at UAL at the bottom, you are a reserve and probably on the smallest plane at UAL. That would be the same with the newhire at CAL. You can't penalize the CAL guy for being at a stronger company that hired recently compared to UAL. Sad but true. DAL newhires were put infront of NWA guys hired 7 years prior, in a relative position. That will probably occur with the next large merger too. Remember, your pilot group will put together a list they think is fair along with the other group, and the arbitrators will decide the list.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SWA/FO]

You dont hear much b1tching from DAL or NWA about how things when down. What did they do so right? I dont get it?

 

[mamba20]

deleted

 

[contrail67]

You can try to get DOH, but the last two major cases went the other way. USAir East tried, and failed, and so did NWA. Very unlikely. If you are ten year guy at UAL at the bottom, you are a reserve and probably on the smallest plane at UAL. That would be the same with the newhire at CAL. You can't penalize the CAL guy for being at a stronger company that hired recently compared to UAL. Sad but true. DAL newhires were put infront of NWA guys hired 7 years prior, in a relative position. That will probably occur with the next large merger too. Remember, your pilot group will put together a list they think is fair along with the other group, and the arbitrators will decide the list.


Bye Bye--General Lee

CAL and UAL's bottom 150-200 were hired very close to the same time anyway...2007....UAL's bottom 200 were all hired in 2007/spring 2008. A 10 year guy at United was not on reserve...the bottom 200 or so were.

 

[densoo]

General Lee,

I wonder if you could answer a couple of questions. The $650M note, was it for signing the come-out-of-bankruptcy contract? Was it for the merger with NWA? If for the merger, did it go to just the DAL pilots, or all the pilots in the combined SLI? Did it go to the union for distribution? Was it distributed in a one-time lump sum? Or into pretax retirement funds. Thanks.