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Cal mec response to ual mec

Jetjockey

Stay thirsty my friends
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The UAL pilots control the merger... End of story. Longevity cannot be ignored either. Buckle up. This is going to be a rough ride, thx again to ALPA


Are you allowed to fly when you take crack over there Eastie?
 

Vref+10

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Wendy’s spin was nice. But the reality is that it is 180 degrees from the real truth.

I’m writing this as a CAL pilot who has talked to my reps.

We asked the UAL MEC what they wanted for B747 pay. Then we simply requested that the B777 be included in that same pay category, thus providing more pay for everyone. But the UAL MEC wanted the B777 to be paid LESS. Why would the UAL MEC want the B777 paid lower? That is less money for everyone. Simple answer – seniority grab. Yet they try to hide behind some resolution. Give me a break.

For any United pilot that wants to get on here and go on about “concessionary contract pay rate banding BS”… please spare me the crap. Look at the UPS pilot contract. All equipment is paid in the same band. Is that a concessionary contract? http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/ups.html A UPS First Officer on any equipment makes more than a United B767 Captain. Whether certain equipment is paid the same or not has no bearing on it being concessionary. The actual pay rate has more to do with it.

The ironic thing about this is that Jayson Baron has done more for the furloughed United pilots through the Transition Agreement in agreeing to hire all of the furloughed United pilots, than their own MEC has done for them in the past (selling them out on SCOPE). My understanding is that the UAL MEC sold the furloughed pilots down the river on the LOA that gave up scope further (whiteford?). Don’t get me wrong about hiring the furloughed United pilots - this is the right thing to do. But we could have played hard ball on the Transition Agreement and demanded certain things in return for hiring all of the furloughed United pilots. We did not do that. And for one of the UAL local council reps to come out and trash Jayson Baron in a blast mail is the unthinkable.

One more point worth mentioning. United’s contract had horrible language with regards to merger scope protection. Our contract did have merger scope protection. However, Smisek could have shrunk United way down and/or shifted flying to us. We also played nice on this issue in the Transition Agreement and made sure that United had the same level of protection to prevent whipsawing. If we were after some sort of seniority grab as the UAL MEC insinuates, then we could have played hardball on this issue, as this would have benefited us greatly on the seniority list integration.

Wendy owes the Continental pilots an apology. So does the entire UAL MEC. I trust that this issue will be resolved, but even after it is, I fear that the UAL MEC has created permanent damage in unity over this ridiculous issue. You have to choose your battles. This is certainly not one of them.

Some of you guys should think about emailing your United reps about this.
 

EWR_FO

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Your stance is EXACTLY what the ALPA Merger Policy tries to avoid and what the two pilot groups signed an agreement promising that they would NOT do. You are mixing the JCBA with the SLI. It is the wrong thing to do. We are supposed to be working TOGETHER to get the best possible contract. You are already maneuvering for position on the SLI. They are to be kept separate.

"I" am not maneuvering for anything. Why would the UAL NC, the UAL MEC Chairman, the Cal NC, the Cal MEC Chairman, and the Cal MEC all think it's good enough to agree on but the UAL MEC doesn't at the last minute? I'll give you a hint.....seniority grab. This would have been resolved EXCEPT for the last minute change of heart by the UAL MEC driven by....their 747 constituents. Tell me who is not "working together" now.

Look for the UAL position to change sometime next week, they are just trying to figure out how to shape it without looking like they got embarrassed in a poker hand.
 

Shrek

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"I" am not maneuvering for anything. Why would the UAL NC, the UAL MEC Chairman, the Cal NC, the Cal MEC Chairman, and the Cal MEC all think it's good enough to agree on but the UAL MEC doesn't at the last minute? I'll give you a hint.....seniority grab. This would have been resolved EXCEPT for the last minute change of heart by the UAL MEC driven by....their 747 constituents. Tell me who is not "working together" now.

Look for the UAL position to change sometime next week, they are just trying to figure out how to shape it without looking like they got embarrassed in a poker hand.

I would be SHOCKED if there was 747/777 banding........

Keep the JCBA and SLI apart......... period.
 

Shrek

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And EVERY contract after the DAL contract should be above "that".
 

EWR_FO

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And EVERY contract after the DAL contract should be above "that".

That's fine but you will have to sell it to a mediator. Not saying it's not possible, just that you have to prove why it's different this time.
 

pianoman

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Jan 27, 2005
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Why are we expending capital negotiating a stand-alone highwater mark rate for an airplane that is old already and may be parked soon?!

I could understand if they had 40 brand new A380's or a bunch of 747-8's on order, but this is a waste.

Not to mention their 747 rates are lower than our 767 rates if I remember correctly.
 

Jetjockey

Stay thirsty my friends
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Apparently 500 or so guys think they are more important than the rest of us, INCLUDING 1400 furloughed pilots!

Get over it, move on. Bigger fish to fry here.
 

Yuppyguppy

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Joined
Nov 17, 2003
Posts
934
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Wendy’s spin was nice. But the reality is that it is 180 degrees from the real truth.

I’m writing this as a CAL pilot who has talked to my reps.

We asked the UAL MEC what they wanted for B747 pay. Then we simply requested that the B777 be included in that same pay category, thus providing more pay for everyone. But the UAL MEC wanted the B777 to be paid LESS. Why would the UAL MEC want the B777 paid lower? That is less money for everyone. Simple answer – seniority grab. Yet they try to hide behind some resolution. Give me a break.

For any United pilot that wants to get on here and go on about “concessionary contract pay rate banding BS”… please spare me the crap. Look at the UPS pilot contract. All equipment is paid in the same band. Is that a concessionary contract? http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/ups.html A UPS First Officer on any equipment makes more than a United B767 Captain. Whether certain equipment is paid the same or not has no bearing on it being concessionary. The actual pay rate has more to do with it.

The ironic thing about this is that Jayson Baron has done more for the furloughed United pilots through the Transition Agreement in agreeing to hire all of the furloughed United pilots, than their own MEC has done for them in the past (selling them out on SCOPE). My understanding is that the UAL MEC sold the furloughed pilots down the river on the LOA that gave up scope further (whiteford?). Don’t get me wrong about hiring the furloughed United pilots - this is the right thing to do. But we could have played hard ball on the Transition Agreement and demanded certain things in return for hiring all of the furloughed United pilots. We did not do that. And for one of the UAL local council reps to come out and trash Jayson Baron in a blast mail is the unthinkable.

One more point worth mentioning. United’s contract had horrible language with regards to merger scope protection. Our contract did have merger scope protection. However, Smisek could have shrunk United way down and/or shifted flying to us. We also played nice on this issue in the Transition Agreement and made sure that United had the same level of protection to prevent whipsawing. If we were after some sort of seniority grab as the UAL MEC insinuates, then we could have played hardball on this issue, as this would have benefited us greatly on the seniority list integration.

Wendy owes the Continental pilots an apology. So does the entire UAL MEC. I trust that this issue will be resolved, but even after it is, I fear that the UAL MEC has created permanent damage in unity over this ridiculous issue. You have to choose your battles. This is certainly not one of them.

Some of you guys should think about emailing your United reps about this.

Good post. You are correct. The UAL MEC has several 570's on it including Morse and Kravitt...ironically the 2 most influential. I will email my LEC rep and give him a piece of my mind. I'm with you on the binding. I don't know if it is necessarily a seniority grab (it could be or not) but the fact is they are trying to get higher pay for themselves mostly the 570s (85 strike skygods) and the whitefords (78' hires) who gave up scope and the 170 for a pension (lol). I'm sick and tired of the seniority mindset at the MEC level at UAL and always screwing the narrowbody and furloughed pilots. The narrowbody workrules of the 2003, the TED deal, the bond fund that f'ed the furloughed guys, the 737 parking, the 2000 contract that gave widebody guys a 4 percent greater raise than narrowbody, and of course the current debacle. I'm with the CAL guys for the most part. FIX THE DEAL NOW! Band'em and forget it. The SLI will take care of itself.
 

Scrapdog

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I would be SHOCKED if there was 747/777 banding........

Keep the JCBA and SLI apart......... period.

I guess you should be prepared to be "shocked" then. I saw your same garbage on the other forum. The Cal MEC won't allow blindingly apparent seniority grab to occur for a few hundred guys. Why in the hell wouldn't you want more pay for a larger percentage of the pilot group? That is truly idiotic and makes zero sense.

Get over yourself.
 

Scrapdog

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Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Posts
1,127
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Wendy’s spin was nice. But the reality is that it is 180 degrees from the real truth.

I’m writing this as a CAL pilot who has talked to my reps.

We asked the UAL MEC what they wanted for B747 pay. Then we simply requested that the B777 be included in that same pay category, thus providing more pay for everyone. But the UAL MEC wanted the B777 to be paid LESS. Why would the UAL MEC want the B777 paid lower? That is less money for everyone. Simple answer – seniority grab. Yet they try to hide behind some resolution. Give me a break.

For any United pilot that wants to get on here and go on about “concessionary contract pay rate banding BS”… please spare me the crap. Look at the UPS pilot contract. All equipment is paid in the same band. Is that a concessionary contract? http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/ups.html A UPS First Officer on any equipment makes more than a United B767 Captain. Whether certain equipment is paid the same or not has no bearing on it being concessionary. The actual pay rate has more to do with it.

The ironic thing about this is that Jayson Baron has done more for the furloughed United pilots through the Transition Agreement in agreeing to hire all of the furloughed United pilots, than their own MEC has done for them in the past (selling them out on SCOPE). My understanding is that the UAL MEC sold the furloughed pilots down the river on the LOA that gave up scope further (whiteford?). Don’t get me wrong about hiring the furloughed United pilots - this is the right thing to do. But we could have played hard ball on the Transition Agreement and demanded certain things in return for hiring all of the furloughed United pilots. We did not do that. And for one of the UAL local council reps to come out and trash Jayson Baron in a blast mail is the unthinkable.

One more point worth mentioning. United’s contract had horrible language with regards to merger scope protection. Our contract did have merger scope protection. However, Smisek could have shrunk United way down and/or shifted flying to us. We also played nice on this issue in the Transition Agreement and made sure that United had the same level of protection to prevent whipsawing. If we were after some sort of seniority grab as the UAL MEC insinuates, then we could have played hardball on this issue, as this would have benefited us greatly on the seniority list integration.

Wendy owes the Continental pilots an apology. So does the entire UAL MEC. I trust that this issue will be resolved, but even after it is, I fear that the UAL MEC has created permanent damage in unity over this ridiculous issue. You have to choose your battles. This is certainly not one of them.

Some of you guys should think about emailing your United reps about this.

Best post yet.
 

ualdriver

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Good post. You are correct. The UAL MEC has several 570's on it including Morse and Kravitt...ironically the 2 most influential. I will email my LEC rep and give him a piece of my mind. I'm with you on the binding. I don't know if it is necessarily a seniority grab (it could be or not) but the fact is they are trying to get higher pay for themselves mostly the 570s (85 strike skygods) and the whitefords (78' hires) who gave up scope and the 170 for a pension (lol). I'm sick and tired of the seniority mindset at the MEC level at UAL and always screwing the narrowbody and furloughed pilots. The narrowbody workrules of the 2003, the TED deal, the bond fund that f'ed the furloughed guys, the 737 parking, the 2000 contract that gave widebody guys a 4 percent greater raise than narrowbody, and of course the current debacle. I'm with the CAL guys for the most part. FIX THE DEAL NOW! Band'em and forget it. The SLI will take care of itself.

Good post?
Are you aware of the standing direction given to our MEC by our pilots BEFORE this merger was even announced concerning banding?
Are you aware of how our Master Chariman receives her direction, whether she is a 570 or not or whether or not you like the 570's?
Do you think banding aircraft in the first place is good for pilots or better for management? (hence the standing direction)
Who exactly gave up 70 seat scope at United initially and when did "they" do that? (hint: it wasn't during bankruptcy nor financial duress)
What exactly are you going to tell your LEC rep when you "give him a piece of your mind?"

I would suggest not an e-mail, but a phone call to your rep to discuss what exactly is going on before you "give him a piece of your mind." Some talking points I would suggest:


  • Did the UAL MEC enter initial negotiations agreeing to banding?
  • Is banding good for us pilots? Under what circumstances did banding CAL and UAL aircraft even come about in the first place?
  • If banding is bad for pilots and better for management, why is banding even being considered if the intent is to pursue an industry leading contract for our pilots?
  • Is the intent of the current negotiations to get the best JCBA we can get first then talk about SLI later?
  • What statements did Capt. Pierce make to the MEC(s) concerning banding, the JCBA, and the subsequent SLI? Were those statements in contradiction to the bullet point above this one?
The other stuff I'm not going to even go into as you sound angry about things that have nothing to do with what is going on right now. Believe it or not, the MEC has many members who are not 570's nor "senior" and there is not a conspiracy out there to screw over the junior guy. Make the phone call, then get back to us if you insist on debating this in public.
 

sleeves

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Fact: The Aircraft are banded now, at both company's together.

Fact: The United pilots will gain an advantage if they are split.

Fact: The Neg. Committees have reached an agreement and a proposal is ready to give to MGT. The UAL MEC is holding that proposal up.
 

Flopgut

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Believe it or not, the MEC has many members who are not 570's nor "senior" and there is not a conspiracy out there to screw over the junior guy.


Conspiracy? No. There are actually junior UAL guys/gals who are actually screwed.

Thank PW for us for the 70 seat jets showing up in CAL bases....
 
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