CAL Management Proposal, Delta's Contract

[Kugelblitz]

This has probably been said already, but I don't wish to read 5 pages of .... stuff. I find the counteroffer from management to be a quantum leap ahead of where I thought they would land. Not that I intend to vote for it, but I find their RELATIVE generosity, and I use that term very, very loosely here-but you must consider whom we are referring too, extremely ominous from a merger perspective.

In my mind, there is no doubt that they intend to announce a merger with UAL as soon as they can get this locked up, and their offering a Delta contract to us is proof of that to me. We certainly have Mr. Harvard by the nads here, we should negotiate the h#ll out of this thing and get the moon or simply let it drag out. The longer it takes to resolve this issue the better it is for us, at least if we are trying to protect CAL jobs. Not to mention the improving economy bolsters our case for our proposed pay rates and we will only strengthen our position over time in that regard as things turn around.

 

[General Lee]

This has probably been said already, but I don't wish to read 5 pages of .... stuff. I find the counteroffer from management to be a quantum leap ahead of where I thought they would land. Not that I intend to vote for it, but I find their RELATIVE generosity, and I use that term very, very loosely here-but you must consider whom we are referring too, extremely ominous from a merger perspective.

In my mind, there is no doubt that they intend to announce a merger with UAL as soon as they can get this locked up, and their offering a Delta contract to us is proof of that to me. We certainly have Mr. Harvard by the nads here, we should negotiate the h#ll out of this thing and get the moon or simply let it drag out. The longer it takes to resolve this issue the better it is for us, at least if we are trying to protect CAL jobs. Not to mention the improving economy bolsters our case for our proposed pay rates and we will only strengthen our position over time in that regard as things turn around.

Exactly. Slow things down a bit and make him sweat it out. He will give you whatever it takes eventually, which will be better for you and the UAL guys that merge in. Just watch out for the scope, and make that transfer over to the United side too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AWACoff]

This has probably been said already, but I don't wish to read 5 pages of .... stuff. I find the counteroffer from management to be a quantum leap ahead of where I thought they would land. Not that I intend to vote for it, but I find their RELATIVE generosity*, and I use that term very, very loosely here-but you must consider whom we are referring too, extremely ominous from a merger perspective.
.

Relatively generous??? CAL offered a pay cut, less retirement, and a likely furlough. Our current contract is better than that steaming pile of manure they presented. Why do people think this is anything but a LOWBALL ridiculous offer?!

*bold emphasis added

 

[UALRATT]

This has probably been said already, but I don't wish to read 5 pages of .... stuff. I find the counteroffer from management to be a quantum leap ahead of where I thought they would land. Not that I intend to vote for it, but I find their RELATIVE generosity, and I use that term very, very loosely here-but you must consider whom we are referring too, extremely ominous from a merger perspective.

In my mind, there is no doubt that they intend to announce a merger with UAL as soon as they can get this locked up, and their offering a Delta contract to us is proof of that to me. We certainly have Mr. Harvard by the nads here, we should negotiate the h#ll out of this thing and get the moon or simply let it drag out. The longer it takes to resolve this issue the better it is for us, at least if we are trying to protect CAL jobs. Not to mention the improving economy bolsters our case for our proposed pay rates and we will only strengthen our position over time in that regard as things turn around.

I make this argument here only to express an opinion on the subject of a merger. A counter point to your argument is that without pilots' approval for a domestic code share then UAL will make it's play for CO. They desperately need something especially with the economy turning around and DAL breathing down their necks. Alliance or merger, one will play out and when it gets down to the 9th hour, without an agreement from the pilots, you will see the merger card played. My prediction? Third quarter 2010...

 

[thor2j]

A counter point to your argument is that without pilots' approval for a domestic code share then UAL will make it's play for CO.

You meant "CAL make it's play for UAL" didn't you?

 

[Shrek]

You meant "CAL make it's play for UAL" didn't you?

No - he didn't.

It would be a merger not a takeover.

 

[motch]

For all the "FI" experts out there,

Has there ever been a merger in recent times (last 25 years) where an airline that had pilots (ALOT!) on furlough has done a successful hostile takeover of another carrier?
UAL trying to take over CAL?!

One of the reasons CAL management threw out the DAL PWA+1 (IMO) is the RJ Scope protection we have when compared to UAL.

For ANY merger to work between CAL & UAL, three things have to be addressed.
1) RJ Flying and Scope
2) Pilots on Furlough
3) Career expectations

All three are important, but the reality is- if a combined CAL/UAL used CAL's scope protection- You would immediately see a halt in UALX flying on many routes, to be replaced by 737/A320 aircraft. Obviously not at the same frequency.. but you can replace 6/7 70 seat RJ flights a day to a location with 2/3 mainline aircraft.
This in itself would require bringing back a large portion of the furloughed pilots!
Then, you look at UAL's work rules at CAL and you find CAL being short of pilots.

But the elephant in the room holding up a merger is CAL pilots scope protect.

There is no way that I will vote YES on any TA that gives away our scope protection~

That being said, someone needs to explain to me how Continental maintains it's presence within the industry for the foreseeable future-
A) Without any aircraft in the 78-120 category flying Continental routes..
B) With those aircraft on our property but flown at a rate so far above industry average?

What I would love to see=
We have a 70-76 aircraft payscale and those aircraft on property and
We have a 90-120 aircraft payscale and those aircraft on property (Category D proposal maybe?!)

 

[AWACoff]

90-120 seat category??? What do you think a 737-500 is?! Motch, stop negotiating in public!!! JHFC! I swear you don't even work at CAL and are just posting flamebait.

 

[UALRATT]

That being said, someone needs to explain to me how Continental maintains it's presence within the industry for the foreseeable future-
A) Without any aircraft in the 78-120 category flying Continental routes..
B) With those aircraft on our property but flown at a rate so far above industry average?

For starters I suggest you try the offices of Mr. Jeff Smisek, Mr. Leon Kinloch, Mr. Dave Hilfman, and Mr. Mark Bergsrud. These folks are paid an awful lot of money to deal with that issue...

 

[Shrek]

90-120 seat category??? What do you think a 737-500 is?! Motch, stop negotiating in public!!! JHFC! I swear you don't even work at CAL and are just posting flamebait.

He is a CAL pilot.