C90B vs F90

[mike1mc]

I have a customer looking to purchase a King Air. We were originally looking at an older C90B, but also considered the idea of an F90 to take advantage of the higher TAS. Can anyone offer any pros/cons for either? Ideally we are looking for something in the $1.1M range (hence the older aircraft), but I know realistically we can be looking to spend as much as $1.5M. We already manage/charter a 2000 C90B.

 

[400A]

I ran the C90B and F90 at the same time and thought the F-90 was far superior. It was on average 30 Kts faster. It needed slightly more runway but it never was a factor with us. We had LA-97 and it was a fantastic airplane. If you can get a F90-1 it is even better. I thought it rode much better than the C90-B and it was the nicest flying of all of the King Air's. It is very sporty.

 

[milehigh6080]

I have no numbers to support it, but a friend of mine who operated both for a corporate department for a while actually told me that the F-90 was cheaper to operate on a per-mile basis thanks to its added speed. Like I said, I don't have numbers, but I'm sure you could find them in the Conklin and DeDecker books to back it up.

 

[Bandit60]

I ran the C90B and F90 at the same time and thought the F-90 was far superior. It was on average 30 Kts faster. It needed slightly more runway but it never was a factor with us. We had LA-97 and it was a fantastic airplane. If you can get a F90-1 it is even better. I thought it rode much better than the C90-B and it was the nicest flying of all of the King Air's. It is very sporty.

I flew both as well. My take on it is just the opposite of yours. I hated the F90. The one we had a wing spar strap on it and it slowed it down. The C90 I was flying had been a mod on it that allowed it to run at higher temps, therefore run faster. The speed difference between the two was 7 knots. The F90 burned a ton more fuel than the C90.

Keep in mind that I have flown all types of king airs 90 A100and B100 200 and 350 and the next to the A100 the F90 was the worst I have flown.

 

[mzaharis]

Couldn't you get a C90B up to the performance (or at least close) of an F90 through a Blackhawk -135 engine swap? Don't know if this puts you over the price range you're considering (although if the existing engines have some time left on them, you can get a partial refund).

 

[400A]

I agree with what Mile high said. The only reason our C90B was cheaper to operate was because it was brand new and still under warranty.

I also thought the F-90 performed better in simulated single engine operations during check rides as well. Fortunately, I did not fly either one of them in an actual engine out operation.

-135 engine upgrades would be very expensive and the money spent would not be retained on resale.

It is my understanding that a F90-1 will do 270KTAS. Ours used to do 260KTAS on a regular basis.

I have flown all versions of King Air's as well, except the B-100. I flew enough other garrett powdered turbo props to know I would not like it.

I did not fly a -90 with the spar strap, but like you said, we had a 200 with it and it would only do around 255-260 wide open.

Increased ITT's are good for performance, but it will smart when you get the bill at HSI. We always ran ours cool.

 

[mike1mc]

Not interested in doing an C90 -135 conversion as the cost would not out-weigh the benefit for the customer. An F-90 is apprx the same price as an older C90A so we were weighing the option there.

From the numbers I have, the F-90 was approx $150-200 and hour more expensive to operate than a C90A. Aquisition cost was about the same for a slightly newer model C90 than F90. Any "gotchas" when looking to purchase older King Airs? Thanks for the help!

 

[400A]

Not interested in doing an C90 -135 conversion as the cost would not out-weigh the benefit for the customer. An F-90 is apprx the same price as an older C90A so we were weighing the option there.

From the numbers I have, the F-90 was approx $150-200 and hour more expensive to operate than a C90A. Aquisition cost was about the same for a slightly newer model C90 than F90. Any "gotchas" when looking to purchase older King Airs? Thanks for the help!

Remember to equate that to cost per mile. Both are good aircraft. Gotchas are overhaul, Hot sections, gear overhaul and prop overhaul. And of be sure and get a good prebuy at a shop of YOUR choosing that knows King Airs very well.
also have the windshields checked. (VERY EXPENSIVE) Borescope the engines at minimum, split them if they will let you. King air motors are prone to FOD if someone has been a heavy reverse user. Be picky about the boots too.

 

[mike1mc]

Thanks for the help!

 

[CapnVegetto]

How about an E90? C90 airframe and wings with F90 engines? Is that right?? I'm not quite sure, but I've heard numerous people say that was the best 90 model ever made.

 

[jergar999]

Most E-90's use the -28 engines (the same as on the A100). Bandit, how could you have flown the 100 and still think the F90 was the worst of them?

The -28s produce 680 max and 620 cruise hp, and of all the hot sections we have had done (C90A, A100, and 200) the -28's are always the cheapest, and in the best shape.

 

[Rick1128]

How about an E90? C90 airframe and wings with F90 engines? Is that right?? I'm not quite sure, but I've heard numerous people say that was the best 90 model ever made.

I have flown most of the KA models. And based on personal experience the E is not better than the C. The advanced C like the -1 or C90B are better than the E90. The E has a higher GW than the C, but it also has a higher empty weight. So it all comes out in the wash.

 

[ultrarunner]

I have a customer looking to purchase a King Air. We were originally looking at an older C90B, but also considered the idea of an F90 to take advantage of the higher TAS. Can anyone offer any pros/cons for either? Ideally we are looking for something in the $1.1M range (hence the older aircraft), but I know realistically we can be looking to spend as much as $1.5M. We already manage/charter a 2000 C90B.

While you might go a bit faster in an F, I don't see it as an advantage since you're going to have a relic airframe.

Buy the newer airframe. You'll be MUCH happier during the time of ownership in addition to when you sell it.

 

[msw]

Forget all the 90's. Look at 200's you can probably get them in the same price range, albeit a slightly earlier one. Bigger is better.

 

[atlcrashpad]

F90-1

I flew for a company that had serial# LA-206. That was a rocketship. I loved that plane. Too bad the company fiddle farted it's finances and lost all of our planes. We had a 58P Baron also. That is a sweet plane too. My only other experience with Kingair(s) has been BE200, E-90 and A100. All are great planes for corporate use. A pleasure to fly.

 

[Bandit60]

Most E-90's use the -28 engines (the same as on the A100). Bandit, how could you have flown the 100 and still think the F90 was the worst of them?

The -28s produce 680 max and 620 cruise hp, and of all the hot sections we have had done (C90A, A100, and 200) the -28's are always the cheapest, and in the best shape.

Read what I said.. I said that next to the A100 the F90 was the was the worst. Meaning that the A100 tops my list of the worst kingair that I have flown.

 

[Bandit60]

Forget all the 90's. Look at 200's you can probably get them in the same price range, albeit a slightly earlier one. Bigger is better.

AMEN!!!!!!

 

[jergar999]

Sorry,

I read it a little too fast the first time.

 

[Bandit60]

No worries I do the same thing alot.

 

[asolo]

One other option to getting an F-90 is a C90/A/B and get the TRAD Conversion (Turbine Research And Development). Most people haven't heard of it, but it is similar to the BlackHawk conversion but instead of the -135's they are -35's. We have a C90A with it and it will true at 260 KTAS. The difference b/t the two conversions is -135 are 750 SHP and the -35's are derated to 550 SHP. But the cool thing is the max ITT is 805. That makes for easy summer taxi and T/O and you will never really reach that temp unless it's hot up high and you have the ice vanes open. At FL190-FL200 you will run out of N1 before you reach the max ITT. Fuel burn is 300-350 lbs/side for the t/o and climb and stays in that range until 15000 or so, b/c you keep boosting the power to keep the torque. You can get burn down to 250 lbs/side at about FL200 and, or course, even lower up high.
But, after having said all that, you might end up in the same situation like the Blackhawk conversion and not be able to get your money out of it. Good luck!

ASOLO