C-337s

[phantomdriver]

Is the C-337 skymaster easy to fly?

 

[Beechjetr]

I hear most of the crashes on take off are from pilots taking off with the rear engine not running(never started, or quit in taxi). A guy who had flown them told me when you start adding power on takeoff, you lead with the rear engine.

 

[DGdaPilot]

when you start adding power on takeoff, you lead with the rear engine.

Bingo, problem solved.

 

[phantomdriver]

OK. I am looking to buy one and I would like to have as much info as i can.

 

[Beechjetr]

FLYING had an article a couple years ago. They mentioned how they sound "funny" when flying by. I think the reason was something about how the props aren't on the same plane (the aft being higher) and the sound freqs dont' "mesch" well.

 

[banned username 2]

Is the C-337 skymaster easy to fly?

I have about 100 hours in a C-337 Skymaster (Turbo)... It was a 1967... I wasn't impressed at all with the performance of this plane... Flies a lot like a C-182 but heavier... Even with both engines running it was a dog... Maybe the one I was flying was just a bad one, not sure as this was the only one I had ever flown...

 

[ATRedneck]

Is the C-337 skymaster easy to fly?

Depends. If you know what you're doing, it is. (not like this guy!) http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X11560&key=1

I flew a couple hundred hours in a normally-aspirated one, and best I remember it'd do about 150 TAS on +/-28 gallons/hour. As a point of comparison I was flying a Turbo Saratoga with all the speed mods and it'd do 165 TAS on the same fuel burn, with the added benefit of only one engine to overhaul.

But like any recip twin, by having two engines all you're doing is doubling your chances of one conking out. At least in the Mixmaster you don't have to worry about tumbling out of the sky when one quits.

 

[ultrarunner]

OK. I am looking to buy one and I would like to have as much info as i can.

Phantom, I owned an H model for several years, and I liked the airplane. The H models were some of the last ones built. It was normally aspirated and the Cont. IO 360's we're quite reliable in my experience.

The H models had several refinements over the older models, the most important of which is the fuel system.

As I recall, the older 337's had aux and main tanks, and you had to press a button to get aux fuel tank readings up on a guage, or something weird like that.

The H models had the simple selectors we know and love, L, R, Crossfeed, Off.

I would own one again. The H models, and others that are modified, have a baggage door on the right side of the airplane. I recommend this.

Some things to look for....

Corrosion...these planes are getting older.

Proper sealing of the avionics access panels forward of the windshield.

Same with the main cabin door

The Pilot window is also an emer exit, and also needs to be properly rigged and sealed.

As you are aware, each main gear has two gear doors. If I were to buy one today, I would get the STC that removed all those doors, and associated actuators. The the mains simply tuck inside two small openings. This will significatly reduce your maintenance on the gear.

As posted earlier, the airplane is heavy in roll. But it goes give you good stability. You can typically plan on 160 to 160 kts no problem on the later models.

The later turbo models did tend to be dogs down low as they suffered from cooling problems, especially the rear engine. They were also a bit heavier. I would NOT buy a turbo or P model.

It's an excellent 4 place airplane. I never kept the two small seats installed, choosing to have a large baggage area. They would only be for a small child anyway.

You will be impressed by the visibility. The front seats are forward of the wing, like a cardnial, and the windshield wraps up high.

Get online with the Cessna Pilot groups for some more info.

And with anything such as this, have a proper pre-purchase contract drawn up and inspection by a reputable shop specializing in 337's that you choose.

 

[phantomdriver]

thanks for the info.

 

[crash-proof]

dedicated site...


http://www.skymaster.org.uk/

 

[Steveair]

It lands like a Cirrus. Don't flare too much!

 

[erj-145mech]

On short final, when I'm crossing the fence, I trim full nose up, holding down the yoke so that when I pull the last of the power off, all I have to do is relax my push and the airplane will flare itself. I'll be holding about 75-80 kts on short final, and this will give me about 900 ft landing distance with moderate braking. There is a flap/trim interconnect cable that will trim nose down when the flaps retract.

I haven't noticed a heavy control input pressures, it flies pretty much like a 210.
One time when I was at altitude and wanted to see about max rate decent, I slowed to 100, put in full flaps, and opened just the gear doors, and to maintain 90 in the decent, I was pegged out on the 6000 ft VSI. To open the gear doors, extend the gear, when the doors open, return the gear handle to the down/neutral position. This opens the doors and the gear is still in the uplocks.

 

[ultrarunner]

As I recall, the later airplanes have the elec. hyd power pack gear system, with just the two position gear switch. But it's been a long time, so I may be wrong on that.

Did the earlier airplanes have all hydraulic gear.

To open just the doors on the elec. planes, you simply extended the emer. hand pump and started pumping, thus beginning the extension sequence.

As I recall from ground servicing, you reset the breaker which engaged the powerpack, thus bringing the doors back up.

 

[erj-145mech]

Right, be sure to pull the breaker before you start pumping, no electrical power, doors open, power on, doors closed. This is on 1973 337G's and on.

 

[Propsync]

On short final, when I'm crossing the fence, I trim full nose up, holding down the yoke so that when I pull the last of the power off, all I have to do is relax my push and the airplane will flare itself.

Sounds like a great technique. I'd the same to teach elevator trim stall above 2500' AGL. You must refuse to go around then, correct?

 

[trainer8]

Phantom, I owned an H model for several years, and I liked the airplane. The H models were some of the last ones built. It was normally aspirated and the Cont. IO 360's we're quite reliable in my experience.


The later turbo models did tend to be dogs down low as they suffered from cooling problems, especially the rear engine. They were also a bit heavier. I would NOT buy a turbo or P model.

While working as a mechanic in the '80s, when a C-337 (very distinctive sound) entered the pattern, we all headed for the time clock to punch out. I worked on a P-337. Solid airframe. The rear engine is extremely baffeled for max cooling and, oh, it was horrible to time the mags.

Ever see Bat 21 with Danny Clover and Gene Hackman? A true story. Great shots of the O-2.

Best wishes with your purchase.

T8

 

[RightPedal]

Saw an artical once where a guy in Texas remover the front engine and installed a 402/421 (?) nose and a PT-6 pusher in the back. Wonder what ever came of that?

I like the 337. Never flew one but I read that it's a safe twin. An artical I read spoke of numbers like 50% power got 150mph on 18+/- gph. That's not to bad is it? Know some guys that flew them in Nam and sware by them.

 

[Xphile]

If you are buying it to complete your multi engine work and build time, keep in mind that it is considered centerline thrust and the time is of little value when looking for that multiengine position in a standard twin.

 

[erj-145mech]

Sounds like a great technique. I'd the same to teach elevator trim stall above 2500' AGL. You must refuse to go around then, correct?

When you pull the power off, the nose gets heavy and it keeps you from pranging the nose on. The nose is tough, but it can't handle 4400 lbs of airplane trying to push it thru the asphalt. Like I said, this is crossing the fence, so you're about 10-15 seconds from touch down, so going around is very unlikely. Usually going around is determined before 1/4 mile from the threshold.

On the O-2, the elevator bob weights and springs weren't installed and the elevator has about 5 degrees more travel than the civillian counterpart, so the pitch forces are much different, and less.

 

[sky37d]

I own one. It is a 69. Has the aux tanks. Has De-Ice, which removes some speed from cruise. Plan on 155KTS true. Have about 600 hours in mine. Just spent a lot of time in the gulf coast with it. Wouldn't have flown anything else.

the proper website is

www.337skymaster.org

The other one is defunct.

There is a largish user group, with annual gatherings.

 

[Propsync]

this is crossing the fence, so you're about 10-15 seconds from touch down, so going around is very unlikely. Usually going around is determined before 1/4 mile from the threshold.

Fair enough. I always wanted to fly a mixmaster until now. Most of my go-arounds happen less than 1/4 mile from the runway.

 

[citabriapilot]

I flew several hundred hours in a H model down low for a NOAA survey offshore. Easy to fly and seems to be very economical. We were limited to 110 KIAS for our survey, but in doing so we flew it leaned to 12 gph total.

Usually you start the taxi with the rear engine, to prevent sucking up dirt/rocks/gravel into your prop (it sits higher than the front) and our plane was placarded for starting the takeoff roll by leading with rear power (so you can be sure it is running).

I never thought the airplane was a dog. It climbed like a raped ape with 4 people on board and the mains full. Landing is a little different than most Cessna's, though. Seems like you can't really flare it and hold the nose off like you would in a 182, but rather give it just a touch of a flare in ground effect and almost "push" the nose down to kiss the mains on. Perhaps because the landing gear is so far aft? I don't know, but it always worked for me...the first couple of times I tried flairing like a typical Cessna single and never had a greaser.

Single engine is a breeze, although I didn't try it at full gross. With two people on board and 3/4 gas it will still climb pretty good, but I'm sure it gets sick like any twin when its hot and heavy.

And the sound? You can't miss it, that's for sure. Sounds like two Harleys with pipes going full bore. I loved it. Chugga Chugga...

As for building time for a job...the employers either accept it or they don't. None of the regionals I spoke with had a problem with it, nor did the freight company I am working for now. It takes a multiengine proficient pilot to fly it, but its not any harder than a Seminole or a 210, if you consider that hard. The only time it doesn't act like a typical twin is when your engine dies...

 

[ATRedneck]

If you are buying it to complete your multi engine work and build time, keep in mind that it is considered centerline thrust and the time is of little value when looking for that multiengine position in a standard twin.

As long as you get your multi rating in a conventional twin, it doesn't matter if your twin time is in a 337 or a 310. I got an airline job with most of my multi in a 337, and I now do interviews for that same airline, and Skymaster time isn't viewed any differently than any other twin time.

There are two engines, two generators, two crossfeeding fuel tanks, two generators... there's no difference as long as they're both running.

 

[JediNein]

I used to fly a 336 Skymaster. The rudders are taller and the booms are about a foot lower than the 337s. It is very much like the 210s; if they are flown a lot, the maintenance is reasonable. If they are not flown, expect them to be hangar queens.

Landings in the 337s seem to be conventional, the 336 flap/trim interconnect was disconcerting at first. The 336 really likes to climb with flap settings per the Air Force flight manual. The P337 takes its sweet time to get off the ground.

I've not had any troubles with go-arounds from any altitude in 336s, 337s, or the P337s. I haven't flown the 0-2 yet. Look in the POH for the balked landing airspeed, pitch (up or down) for it, get the flaps to where they belong, then get out of Dodge. That balked landing airspeed is for directional control, not climb.

Lead with the rear engine on takeoff, do a reasonably prudent job of checking the EGTs before releasing the brakes, then go have fun flying them.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[NoPax]

If you are buying it to complete your multi engine work and build time, keep in mind that it is considered centerline thrust and the time is of little value when looking for that multiengine position in a standard twin.

Would you consider F/A-18 or F-15 time of little value as well???

Centerline-thrust only matters if you get your rating in one, not after

 

[erj-145mech]

Fair enough. I always wanted to fly a mixmaster until now. Most of my go-arounds happen less than 1/4 mile from the runway.

I find it hard to believe that most of your go arounds are 12-1500 feet from the numbers after a stable approach. Are runway incursions a problem?

I flew mostly at uncontrolled fields, with 3 flight schools, and fit in the pattern with numerous student pilots and the Traumahawks and One Filthy's and the only runway incursions were from animals entering the runway environment.

If you have a frequent problem of having to go around in the flare, then perhaps my technique is not suited to your style.

 

[crash-proof]

Saw an artical once where a guy in Texas remover the front engine and installed a 402/421 (?) nose and a PT-6 pusher in the back. Wonder what ever came of that?

There was another oddball 337 that had the rear engine removed and in place of the front one put a Garret turboprop. In place of the rear engine went clam-shell cargo doors. Bet that would turn heads wherever you landed

http://www.air-and-space.com/Conroy%20Turbo%20Mods/19740612%20Stolifter%20a%20l.jpg


Then there was (is?) the Riley Rocket conversion, replacing both engines with Cont 550s...300hp each!!! That would be one wild ride.

 

[sky37d]

Then there was (is?) the Riley Rocket conversion, replacing both engines with Cont 550s...300hp each!!! That would be one wild ride.

Actually, it is dual 520's, 310 HP each. Normal cruise, 210 KTS at 20K.

SE ceiling is 14 K.

Try that in a (insert anyother airplane here).

 

[westwind]

The CIRPAS "Pelican" was (is?) a highly modified 337 that was stuffed with weather monitoring equipment and set up to be operated remotely. http://aerofiles.com/ces-cirpas.jpg

 

[Denizen]

What ever happened to the 337 that was suposed to out run Citations, or at least nip at their heels. Some sort of new super cam or something...ohhh hazy memory.