Bye Bye Woerthless

[Jonny Sacko]

You're just not too bright either! The ANSWER (as if you have a slight clue) is employee's determining managements pay. PERIOD.

Good year, good management, give bonus'

Typical idiots like you running everything into ground and taking 13million bonus. HANG FROM NEAREST TREE!



"We need modesty, ya, modesty. Please be modest. I'm going to take a bonus, but please be modest. PS I'm gay"

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez has been on a three day trip with no computer... but you can pull your wadded panties out now that I am back...

It's all about the politics. alpa is just a business. If there where no politics involved and alpo was really out to help the pilots,

The most ill informed "I don't understand" statement on this thread...

Don't know anything about the new guy, except that he is promising/threatening a return to hard nosed tactics. That's not worked in the past and it will not work in the future. Both United and Delta played hardball in the last few years. Where did it get them? A short-term gain, followed by concessions so deep that it took them back 20 years. Eastern played hard-ball, and the thing it got them was a place on the unemployment line.

The short-term thinking has to stop. Don't try to be"on top on time", "industry leading", "United+1" or whatever. Instead, strive for modest gains in your own contract regardless of what is going on at the other carriers. In the long run I think you will be better off.

My .02
Fire Away

You can't represent your pilots from the parking lot.

Sure your pissed and want to throw nuclear hand grenades with THEBEST and LEAR70 enscribed on the sides..... all in the name of Air Line Pilots... and that works in the short term. But whe policy planning occures... guess what! You don't get invited to the meeting!

Hoover, if they want to be militant wacko's that satisfy emotional voids....go for it.. they really don't have the skill set or the audience to go futher than... say a moniker message board....

However, it seems you know a littel more than the lunatic fringe...

 

[Lear70]

Ummm... Rez... you posted on the other DW/ALPA thread just on Wednesday night.

Yeah, gone on a 3-day trip without a computer but were able to respond to the other thread. I think not.

Good try, though.

Incidentally, current ALPA policy of "live to fight another day" doesn't work either, now does it?

Don't even insult my intelligence by trying to support it. We both know better... Time for a new more hard-nosed approach. Until mgmt knows they can't push us around anymore, nothing will change. When we stand firm and they know they are in REAL danger of losing their golden cow, they might actually have to manage an airline responsibly.

oooh oohh, THERE'S a novel concept.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Ummm... Rez... you posted on the other DW/ALPA thread just on Wednesday night.

Yeah, gone on a 3-day trip without a computer but were able to respond to the other thread. I think not.

Good try, though.

Wow. You know what I did, even when I don't. OK Lear70, if you believe that I was on line Weds nite, then it must be true. Don't let anyone else tell you different. You tell truth and reality who's boss!

Incidentally, current ALPA policy of "live to fight another day" doesn't work either, now does it?

I guess it all depends one what unit of measure you use. I offer that if you get informed on the issues. Stop talking. Stop typing in CAPS and listen. You might understand what is going on.. Rather your modus operandi suggests your militantcy is uncooperative and thus not really given the time of day when it comes to addressing the issues. Therefore, you aren't afforded the specifics on the issues, don't have all the information and act accordingly.

Don't even insult my intelligence by trying to support it. We both know better... Time for a new more hard-nosed approach. Until mgmt knows they can't push us around anymore, nothing will change. When we stand firm and they know they are in REAL danger of losing their golden cow, they might actually have to manage an airline responsibly.

Lear, since you know and I don't what I was doing Weds night, I am not going to even try to address your intelligence. You are wat too smart for me. What did I do last night? Can you even tell me what I will do tomorrow night? You da man!

But I will suggest this... You stated "Time for a new more hard-nosed approach. Until mgmt knows they can't push us around anymore, nothing will change. When we stand firm"

Since you said it... I ask you this: HOW are we to be more hard nosed? How do we get management to know they can't push us around? Since you challenge me not to insult your intellegence, can you offer real applicable action that will provide results.

OR

If you want to say that is Prater's job for him to figure out, can you reference his website that discusses the hardnose approach.

Eitherway, back up your statements and let me know...

oooh oohh, THERE'S a novel concept.

A novel concept would be pilots participating in thier careers. You keep saying we need hard nosed action and I keep saying pilots need to actually get involved.

Have you sent money to CAPA-PAC yet Lear? Or do have some elaborate conspiarcy reason why it is a good idea in theory but it just isn't practical for you...

Imagine.. actually particapting in events that effect your airline career....

Now there is a novel concept.

 

[Lear70]

Wow. You know what I did, even when I don't. OK Lear70, if you believe that I was on line Weds nite, then it must be true. Don't let anyone else tell you different. You tell truth and reality who's boss!

Hmmm... had a little too much morning coffee, have we?

I was looking at the thread you started about DW several days ago and read the date of your last post on it incorrectly. Yes, I said incorrectly because I, unlike yourself, can admit an error.

Have you sent money to CAPA-PAC yet Lear? Or do have some elaborate conspiarcy reason why it is a good idea in theory but it just isn't practical for you...

Imagine.. actually particapting in events that effect your airline career....

Now there is a novel concept.

And there YOU go, knowing exactly how I have or have not gotten involved in the events shaping my career. Since you know what I haven't done, tell me exactly how many years I DIDN'T volunteer in ALPA committees, tell me how I DIDN'T spend countless hours working on PCL ALPA projects.

Please, enlighten us on how YOU know EXACTLY how I do or do not participate in events that affect my career?

*hint* This is where you own up to your mistake in ASSuming I am uninvolved.

I guess it all depends one what unit of measure you use. I offer that if you get informed on the issues. Stop talking. Stop typing in CAPS and listen. You might understand what is going on..

I type in CAPS only to put stress on certain words so that my typing comes across like I would say it. It's not intended to be a shout, other people understand this. Basically, I'm too lazy to use the bold feature.

Incidentally, I listen just fine; I simply don't hear anything but the same old bullsh*t that's gotten ALPA carriers absolutely NOWHERE in the last couple decades.

The rules have changed. Dinosaurs like you need to learn to adapt.

Rather your modus operandi suggests your militantcy is uncooperative and thus not really given the time of day when it comes to addressing the issues. Therefore, you aren't afforded the specifics on the issues, don't have all the information and act accordingly.

Hmmm... there you go again. Because you are there PERSONALLY every time I talk to a status rep or the MEC chair. Because you PERSONALLY have witnessed how these people wouldn't talk to me about the issues. Incidentally, (2 of them at PCL were very good personal friends, so again, time for you to own up to your error.

But I will suggest this... You stated "Time for a new more hard-nosed approach. Until mgmt knows they can't push us around anymore, nothing will change. When we stand firm"

Since you said it... I ask you this: HOW are we to be more hard nosed? How do we get management to know they can't push us around? Since you challenge me not to insult your intellegence, can you offer real applicable action that will provide results.

I already have, you're simply overlooking not only this thread but past posts where you and I (and the 90% of other people out there who know that the current ALPA stance doesn't work) have butted heads on the issue.

You simply say NO to concessions. You draw up a minimum wage for each equipment category as well as days off and work rules and say "NO ALPA carrier will be allowed to sign for less than this". Then you let mgmt know where this minimum line is and that the airline will be shut down when the pilots strike over it.

If an airline can't afford to pay, too fu*king bad. They need to learn how to compete on cost without robbing the employees who make it happen every day.

Incidentally, I didn't need to go to Prater's website to find that approach, I read it off the press release directly from HIS quote, or did your keen skills of observation (since you can obviously be present to see what anyone is doing on any given day with their union) miss that part?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Hmmm... had a little too much morning coffee, have we?

I was looking at the thread you started about DW several days ago and read the date of your last post on it incorrectly. Yes, I said incorrectly because I, unlike yourself, can admit an error.

Ok, your right and I am wrong. No wait you said you were wrong. But that is ok. I'll be wrong.

And there YOU go, knowing exactly how I have or have not gotten involved in the events shaping my career. Since you know what I haven't done, tell me exactly how many years I DIDN'T volunteer in ALPA committees, tell me how I DIDN'T spend countless hours working on PCL ALPA projects.

Please, enlighten us on how YOU know EXACTLY how I do or do not participate in events that affect my career?

*hint* This is where you own up to your mistake in ASSuming I am uninvolved.

Om you're right and I am wrong.

I guess it all depends one what unit of measure you use. I offer that if you get informed on the issues. Stop talking. Stop typing in CAPS and listen. You might understand what is going on..

I type in CAPS only to put stress on certain words so that my typing comes across like I would say it. It's not intended to be a shout, other people understand this. Basically, I'm too lazy to use the bold feature.

Is a consideration of how others precieve your M.O. on the issues valid?

Incidentally, I listen just fine; I simply don't hear anything but the same old bullsh*t that's gotten ALPA carriers absolutely NOWHERE in the last couple decades.

The rules have changed. Dinosaurs like you need to learn to adapt.

Not sure if you do listen. You seem to stand firm on the course of action you believe to be correct. The problem is... no one is taking that course of action. Why is that? Is the ALPA membership and/or leadership wrong and you're right?

Again.. the course of action you suggest is not being implemented!!! Does that mean anything to you!

Hmmm... there you go again. Because you are there PERSONALLY every time I talk to a status rep or the MEC chair. Because you PERSONALLY have witnessed how these people wouldn't talk to me about the issues. Incidentally, (2 of them at PCL were very good personal friends, so again, time for you to own up to your error.

Ok you're right and I am wrong.

Have you contributed in CAPA-PAC? You didn't answer from my last post.

I already have, you're simply overlooking not only this thread but past posts where you and I (and the 90% of other people out there who know that the current ALPA stance doesn't work) have butted heads on the issue.

90% of the other people? I didn't realize that you reprsented and spoke for 90% of the other people. Wow. Impressive.

You simply say NO to concessions. You draw up a minimum wage for each equipment category as well as days off and work rules and say "NO ALPA carrier will be allowed to sign for less than this". Then you let mgmt know where this minimum line is and that the airline will be shut down when the pilots strike over it.

Ok Lear.. fine. How. For the love of god and all things holy please discuss the practical application of your ideas. How do we implement! It one thing to ramble on the message boards about your ideas it is another to convince others your ideas are valid and workable and then acutally implement them. This is where you fall off the map!

What would be great is Mach 5 passenger travel. NYC to Tokyo in 2 hours. Sounds great. How do you do it.

Actually, we tried to say no to concessions. But the pilot groups of NWA, Airtran, DAL, AMR, and UAL all said yes collectively via TA's and democratic votes. So as a minority, who is your issue really with? The leadership or the membership?

Riddle me this. If we say no to concessions then management will get the cost cut another way. Furloughs. Unions don't control hiring and terminations. So, if the unions say no to negotiate concessions managment will simply furlough more pilots. So the union can negotiate pay cuts so more guys can pay thier house note or do it the lear70 way and more guys cannot pay thier house note.

If an airline can't afford to pay, too fu*king bad. They need to learn how to compete on cost without robbing the employees who make it happen every day.

Great. How. How. how. I'm sure the profanity will be convincing too.

Incidentally, I didn't need to go to Prater's website to find that approach, I read it off the press release directly from HIS quote, or did your keen skills of observation (since you can obviously be present to see what anyone is doing on any given day with their union) miss that part?

Prater is one guy. What we need is more pilots particapting. What if pilots only gave thier dues money and that is it. What if pilots were very active showing up at rallys, picketing, LEC meetings, PACs contributions, etc... Just thinking about it you can see the difference in effectiveness.

Where is the effectiveness? Smugly thinking Prater is going to single handedly change this profession? Or getting involved in your career?

 

[Peanut gallery]

We are getting way off track here

Back to the original topic. Duane is truely worthless, he will not be missed and he should leave knowing that. He should hang his head in shame and his children should wonder the earth in search of a place where they can live free from the shame that he has brought upon them.

There:smash: I feel better now, thanks alot Duane you worthless piece of.........

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Back to the original topic. Duane is truely worthless, he will not be missed and he should leave knowing that. He should hang his head in shame and his children should wonder the earth in search of a place where they can live free from the shame that he has brought upon them.

There:smash: I feel better now, thanks alot Duane you worthless piece of.........

I'd agree with you if you could provide convincing examples of..... here it comes.....how Duane was woerthless.....

 

[Jonny Sacko]

I'd agree with you if you could provide convincing examples of..... here it comes.....how Duane was woerthless.....

Because he's got 1 person standing up for him. Hmmm

 

[F9FORme]

http://www.johnprater2006.com/index-1.html